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Akkula

Are Jehovah's Witness NFL Players Required to Stand?

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The players can stand or kneel.  Owners can discipline (including firing) players or not.  The public can say to hell with the NFL or not at which point the owners and players may be much worse off financially, or not.  Let everyone play their cards and see what comes out in the wash (to mix my metaphors).  Until it all plays out, the losers will not realize that they have lost and will continue to argue.

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12 hours ago, Akkula said:

....on a related note...shouldn't all employers get together and mandate a pledge of allegiance and a national anthem salute prior to the start the day?  What a great show of patriotism and respect for the military that would be!  

Ahhh, let's leave it up to the employers discretion, shall we?

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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3 hours ago, Akkula said:

So you believe that an employer can ask you to do anything they want you to do that is outside the scope of your job and you have to obey as long as it isn't illegal? 

If the employer has it in it's code of conduct it isn't outside the cope of your job.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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19 hours ago, pokebball said:

If the employer has it in it's code of conduct it isn't outside the cope of your job.

What if it is against their religion to follow the code of conduct by standing? ...or does religion only apply to owners who want to ban birth control?  Have you ever heard of a Bona Fide Occupational Qualification?  

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3 hours ago, Akkula said:

What if it is against their religion to follow the code of conduct by standing? ...or does religion only apply to owners who want to ban birth control?  Have you ever heard of a Bona Fide Occupational Qualification?  

If it is against your religion to do part of the job, then you should quit.

The only exception to that is if you're employed by the federal government and then they should move you to a different job.  Not that it matters, tapeworms not doing their job is about as positive an outcome as we can expect from government workers.

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2 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

If it is against your religion to do part of the job, then you should quit.

The only exception to that is if you're employed by the federal government and then they should move you to a different job.  Not that it matters, tapeworms not doing their job is about as positive an outcome as we can expect from government workers.

"their job" is to play football.  The national anthem debacle is a contrivance by the NFL which is outside of the players "job."  I get that the league doesn't want the players shitting all over their contrived spectacle but I don't think they should be forced to participate as it has nothing to do with "their job" of being a player.  It is the same thing as making a Jehovah's witness stand and participate even if it is against their beliefs.  It has absolutely no bearing on their ability to do the job.  They league should be making a reasonable accommodation for players who don't want to participate if they won't allow kneelers.  

It is a problem that the president of the United States is putting pressure on individual business owners to put pressure on their employees...even Rush Limbaugh thinks that is a bad precedent.  What happens if Trump decides everyone should stand for the anthem every day before work and puts economic pressure or applies disfavor to those business or industries who don't bend?  What if it becomes just a way to identify dissenters and to target them if they protest this facist display?  That is why we have secret ballots.....

Dangerous precedent.

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On 10/13/2017 at 6:49 PM, pokebball said:

Ahhh, let's leave it up to the employers discretion, shall we?

Is that really what happened?  It seemed like the NFL owners were just happy to let the few people do their thing.....it seems like it was the president who had the discretion. 

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4 hours ago, Akkula said:

"their job" is to play football.  The national anthem debacle is a contrivance by the NFL which is outside of the players "job."  I get that the league doesn't want the players shitting all over their contrived spectacle but I don't think they should be forced to participate as it has nothing to do with "their job" of being a player.  It is the same thing as making a Jehovah's witness stand and participate even if it is against their beliefs.  It has absolutely no bearing on their ability to do the job.  They league should be making a reasonable accommodation for players who don't want to participate if they won't allow kneelers.  

It is a problem that the president of the United States is putting pressure on individual business owners to put pressure on their employees...even Rush Limbaugh thinks that is a bad precedent.  What happens if Trump decides everyone should stand for the anthem every day before work and puts economic pressure or applies disfavor to those business or industries who don't bend?  What if it becomes just a way to identify dissenters and to target them if they protest this facist display?  That is why we have secret ballots.....

Dangerous precedent.

Their job is to do whatever their employer has contracted them to do.   If you can't do the job you shouldn't have signed the contract.  As entertainers how they present themselves to the public is very important.

 

Trump is a moron and it is really bad precedent for him to threaten anyone from the NFL owners to the players on a First amendment issue.  That has nothing to do with your original subject though.

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11 hours ago, Akkula said:

What if it is against their religion to follow the code of conduct by standing? ...or does religion only apply to owners who want to ban birth control?  Have you ever heard of a Bona Fide Occupational Qualification?  

 

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4 hours ago, Akkula said:

Is that really what happened?  It seemed like the NFL owners were just happy to let the few people do their thing.....it seems like it was the president who had the discretion. 

There is a big issue that is very unfair to the players and hurts them in many ways including their freedom and conduct.  Yet you are too stupid to see a real issue that Trump has actually a point about.

The NFL is a tax exempt business.  So they have an unfair advantage against anyone else that wants to start a competing league.  Which means that players get drafted by a team and have no other choice or freedom to choose another option.  Stafford gets a $30 million dollar contract even though is value is much more because no other NFL team can bid against Detroit above that figure and there are no competing leagues to make another offer.   So the owners get all their stars at a huge discount,

If the NFL wasn't a tax exempt institution Stafford might have recieved a $200 million dollar a year contract offer from the competing league.  Kaepernick would almost assuredly have a job and the NFL owners would have significantly less leverage over their players. 

Again though you don't even understand the issues you're discussing let alone any real issue.

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Players from the Bundesliga team Hertha Berlin knelt in solidarity with NFL players. Hertha was an East German team when Germany was divided. Commies...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/german-soccer-team-kneeling-protest_us_59e2a457e4b04d1d51822c63?ncid=APPLENEWS00001

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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7 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

There is a big issue that is very unfair to the players and hurts them in many ways including their freedom and conduct.  Yet you are too stupid to see a real issue that Trump has actually a point about.

The NFL is a tax exempt business.  So they have an unfair advantage against anyone else that wants to start a competing league.  Which means that players get drafted by a team and have no other choice or freedom to choose another option.  Stafford gets a $30 million dollar contract even though is value is much more because no other NFL team can bid against Detroit above that figure and there are no competing leagues to make another offer.   So the owners get all their stars at a huge discount,

If the NFL wasn't a tax exempt institution Stafford might have recieved a $200 million dollar a year contract offer from the competing league.  Kaepernick would almost assuredly have a job and the NFL owners would have significantly less leverage over their players. 

Again though you don't even understand the issues you're discussing let alone any real issue.

Okay...great...so we have crony capitalism and the "dear leader" will threaten the owners special politically connected crony status unless they get their folks in line.  The "dear leader" puts economic pressure on the owners who were given a special deal by the government ....then the owners have economic power to pressure players.  How long before we have members of "the party" in our workplace NARCing to the government on people who are considered to do or say things that "are against the national interest" or "unpatriotic" and then the government puts pressure on the "special deals" that the employer has earned (like tax exemptions) or threatens to increase enforcement on the business or just make their lives more miserable until they comply?

Do you really have a first amendment if you are black balled from working because the government used its economic power over your employer as opposed to acting directly on your freedoms?      

If Obama would have done something similar we would have never heard the end of the "Big Bad Gubmint"..remember when the IRS was looking at right wing non-profit status?

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1 hour ago, Akkula said:

Okay...great...so we have crony capitalism and the "dear leader" will threaten the owners special politically connected crony status unless they get their folks in line.  The "dear leader" puts economic pressure on the owners who were given a special deal by the government ....then the owners have economic power to pressure players.  How long before we have members of "the party" in our workplace NARCing to the government on people who are considered to do or say things that "are against the national interest" or "unpatriotic" and then the government puts pressure on the "special deals" that the employer has earned (like tax exemptions) or threatens to increase enforcement on the business or just make their lives more miserable until they comply?

Do you really have a first amendment if you are black balled from working because the government used its economic power over your employer as opposed to acting directly on your freedoms?      

If Obama would have done something similar we would have never heard the end of the "Big Bad Gubmint"..remember when the IRS was looking at right wing non-profit status?

We never would have heard a peep from you, so your faux outrage now is laughable.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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27 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

We never would have heard a peep from you, so your faux outrage now is laughable.

I think the point is valid, regardless of your diminishing post.  The POTUS shouldn't be saying some of the things he has and any other POTUS would have caught justified hell for it.

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6 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

I think the point is valid, regardless of your diminishing post.  The POTUS shouldn't be saying some of the things he has and any other POTUS would have caught justified hell for it.

I agree with that part. But it's still right to call others out on their bullcrap when it comes to being outraged at this sort of thing when they didn't a give a damn when their guy was doing the outrageous thing. You don't get to "dear leader" the other side when that's all you did for years.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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2 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I agree with that part. But it's still right to call others out on their bullcrap when it comes to being outraged at this sort of thing when they didn't a give a damn when their guy was doing the outrageous thing. You don't get to "dear leader" the other side when that's all you did for years.

Imagine if Obama went around threatening to pull all government contracts from Aerospace companies who hire active members of the NRA unless they were fired or assigned to non-top secret projects.  You people would be throwing yourselves off the tallest buildings and screaming bloody murder. The IRS scandal was allegedly a bureaucrat and bureaucracy that went too far....."The deep state."  Not the effin president publicly calling for a witch hunt!  

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3 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I agree with that part. But it's still right to call others out on their bullcrap when it comes to being outraged at this sort of thing when they didn't a give a damn when their guy was doing the outrageous thing. You don't get to "dear leader" the other side when that's all you did for years.

In think you may be drawing an equivalence here where there is none friend 

 

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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On 10/13/2017 at 5:23 AM, Akkula said:

...displaying Lenin is my "symbolic kneel" to the folks who like to call moderates like me communists.   I am sure everyone was standing at attention for the anthem every day before work in the USSR!

You're not a moderate.

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