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RAMification

did Bronco Mendenhal prove his point... Indy model not sustainable for BYU??

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5 minutes ago, Fido said:

Haven’t seen this many triggered MWC or Utah fans in a while.  Even when BYU is this awful, they are the talk of the town.

Lol at "triggered". I love kicking BYU and their fans while they are down or up. I'm just evil. No triggering needed. I actually laugh out loud when I see someone with BYU gear on this year. Told an old man just the other day that he had balls for wearing a BYU shirt in public.

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18 hours ago, alum93 said:

A MWC invite would have been sweet, but everything changed so quickly a few years back with conferences scrambling to find a package they could sell.  We do have a fun football team to watch.  Martin took over a program that won 1 game in 2012 under Walker and left very little talent and scholarship reductions.  Several MWC teams find themselves currently in similar situations in terms of struggling mightily.  It took 3 years for Martin to stabilize and he is finally put a product on the field that at least for 5 weeks shows it can compete at a good G5 level.  2 wins in a row over UNM isn't a fluke.  Look up any statistic you want for recent games.  We were a defensive stop away late 4th quarter from winning in 2015 which would have been 3 years in a row.  This year we lost by 4 to a very good Troy team the week after UNM, who just beat LSU.  And we trounced UTEP, who is having a horrible year.  Time will tell what happens to MWC/CUSA/Sun Belt.  I think we'll end up in one of those conferences eventually.  The basketball program has been solid for years and years.  If we can stay respectable and don't go backwards in football, and we just signed Martin to an extension, we should be ok.   I am not going to pretend we belonged in a conference with BYU, Utah, TCU, and Boise.  To be honest, had Boise stayed Boise and those other schools stayed playing at a high level, it would have been as close to a P5 without being a P5 as you could ask.  But the current version of MWC has a lot of schools similar in size to NMSU.  Don't take that as a shot.  It isn't.  The MWC took a huge hit with realignment.  If we end up here, or in Sun Belt, or CUSA, it's all good.  I can see at least 4 years of FBS easily.  Past that, who knows how the college landscape will change.  My best guess right now is B12 top teams go elsewhere and the musical chairs start again.  Lastly, the WAC has improved nicely for our basketball program last several years.  UVU, CSUB, and GCU are all giving us good games finally.  We aren't the bully we were 3 or 4 years ago. It's not a bad place to have our all oly sports until football finds a home.

What I's hoping was -- MWC should offer NMSU & IU some type of "Associate Membership" for Football only, that is Revenue Neutral.  It could be as simple as an Scheduling Agreement guaranteeing each team 6  MWC Fball games/yr for 4 years??  Those 2 programs need a bridge to figure out their future... and the MWC can provide that help, like few others can.  Who knows, both Fball Programs are on the Upswing... they might end up adding great value & making excellent MWC members >>>> in spite of UNM's objections to NMSU & Boise's objections to the Vandals.   Now that'd be sweet!!! 

BTW, I am very aware of NMSU's consistently great MBB program, from the MVC days (was Mo Cheeks @ NMSU or WTSU?).

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13 hours ago, TheTedfordTrain said:

I don't understand why some want to keep talking about BYU. They suck. They're not important. Just an easy W for most MWC teams. They've become irrelevant. 

I know you're hangin' a little trash on the Borg.  But IMHO, no major Turd that has significant talent, is irrelevant.   As long as BYU has their Mormon pipeline to Talent (as ND had with the Catholic HS's).... & remains a pain in the butt for everybody they work with (unless they need to charm some unsuspecting goober who has more $$$'s than sense, like ESPN)... BYU will be remain relevant.  Disliked by all but their own Fans.  But still relevant.  Kinda like the Oakland Raiders??

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18 hours ago, Fido said:

Ok, so the next time you get your panties in a wad over BYU stuff being posted here you can just STFU.  "Ya can't have it both ways."

It's obvious who's panties are in a wad.... I have always welcomed & enjoyed the BYU fan banter that goes BOTH DIRECTIONS.  It's entertaining.  So why did you suddenly get so sensitive to a little bit of very MILD "rubbing your face in your own stew" ??   

We all know that as soon as BYU beats 1 MWC team, your panties will be "righted", and BYU fans will be back to normal.  Your team has hit a rough patch... at a terrible time... and yet it could always recover.  

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15 hours ago, masterfrog said:

If they can schedule 12 games a year, it is sustainable.  

Indeed, as manure is critical to any sustainable eco-system... so is crappy over-confident  Indy fball programs. 

The Q is whether BYU can sustain it's previous levels of EXCELLENT Fball, including earning Big Wins vs. P5 opponents.  Will the ESPN TV $$$'s keep flowing to BYU (or even to a crappy UT?).  I think this is what Bronco was focusing on.   Can BYU Fball afford to be mediocre for the next 2-3 years... or might their ESPN $$$'s get signifcantly shaved... and would that damage BYU's sustainability?   I think the LDS Church will always support their "team".

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Just now, RAMification said:

Indeed, as manure is critical to any sustainable eco-system... so is crappy over-confident  Indy fball programs. 

The Q is whether BYU can sustain it's previous levels of EXCELLENT Fball, including earning Big Wins vs. P5 opponents.  Will the ESPN TV $$$'s keep flowing to BYU (or even to a crappy UT?).  I think this is what Bronco was focusing on.   Can BYU Fball afford to be mediocre for the next 2-3 years... or might their ESPN $$$'s get signifcantly shaved... and would that damage BYU's sustainability?   I think the LDS Church will always support their "team".

BYU has been mediocre since 2010, and since their games and timeslots are already a steal for ESPN, I highly doubt it's going to get shaved.

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21 hours ago, Pelado said:

 

It's obvious even to those that don't follow the program that RAMification doesn't know what he's talking about.

First, Bronco Mendenhall is not a BYU alum.  He played at Snow College and was snubbed by BYU.  He said he picked Oregon State because BYU was on their schedule the next season.

Bronco said early on in his gig as head coach at BYU that he didn't see himself as a "lifer".  He even said he'd be interested in coaching somewhere like Army.  It is not surprising that he accepted a job offer with:

- reportedly double the income

- at a school with no honor code recruiting restrictions

- with lower win expectations from the fan base and administration. 

If he consistently gets Virginia to bowl games, he can probably coach there as long as he wants.  It's not hard to understand Mendenhall taking the job without having to even think about Independence vs. Conference membership.

The "stupid-difficult schedules they were constantly creating" were at Mendenhall's request:

“I chose to have the scheduling part impact that, trying to push the envelope as far as I could. Because that was the most realistic segue that I could direct the program toward, to say this is where I want to go, this is where I want us to go.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/acc/2016/02/22/bronco-mendenhall-college-football-byu-virginia/80756712/

Great article.  Thank you.  From the article you linked :   "Yet as Virginia pulled, circumstances at BYU began to push Mendenhall away. No issue loomed larger than the program’s shift toward independence, which occurred prior to the 2011 season.

“I don’t think it’s sustainable,” he said of BYU’s independent status. “I was trying everything I knew how to do to advance and pioneer that part. If I were to be really blunt about it, I took it as far as I could go in relation to that setting of independence.

“After all that and setting all that foundation and direction, there became a point where I was guardian, custodian of that direction – where it was, I’m not sure now if I’m one supposed to be doing that here.” 

>>>>  is this a nice way of saying "OOOOppps, maybe we/I took this scheduling thing toooo far ????   

>>>>> The entire article supports my ORIGINAL Question/Premise >>>>>>  Bronco was correct that the current BYU model for Independence (which is a copy of ND's model), is NOT sustainable.   Not sustainable for him as a great, proven, experienced HC... we'll see if it is sustainable for BYU as an Institution. 

>>>>> No matter what happens, BYU Fball will endure.   Because as a Mission out-reach tool for the LDS Church (which is what the Borg stated the Fball program was), they can always underwrite the Fball program for Millions of $$$$'s.   And BYU Fball will continue to search for another Great HC to return BYU to it's former place of being almost as good as Boise & the Utes!!  :)

And yes, I goofed re Bronco being a BYU Alum.  My apologies.  Was it Whittingham I was confusing as a BYU Alum?  Or Crowton?  

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32 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

BYU has been mediocre since 2010, and since their games and timeslots are already a steal for ESPN, I highly doubt it's going to get shaved.

I'd say 10-3 ranked #25 w/ huge Win over Ole Miss & 1 pt loss to UT was an "A" rating... three 8-5's & a 9-4 seem like "B" rating to me w/more Big Wins over Texas, Neb, UVa, Wash & Boise.  I'm guessing that had BYU stayed in the MWC during that period they'd have won the MWC approx. 2 to 3 times (we've discussed this before), and have gone to NY6 Bowl at least 1 time.  THIS IS NOT MEDIOCRE, especially considering the SOS's.

Agree, ESPN shouldn't shave BYU as it is a great bargain.  But there is that problem with ESPN cash-flows, and the Rich keep getting richer... while the poor get poorer (Jim Delany is devilishly smart!!)

BYU felt it had to go Indy, 90% because of UU's invite to P10.  Now BYU's finding it difficult to back peddle itself into another G5 Conference situation... because even the LDS Believers will spot the excuses as LIES & inconsistencies.  And no P5 wants BYU.  

The best Strategy for BYU, IMHO, is to hire Urban Meyer & tone down the schedule.  And since that ain't happening --- get a Assoc. Membership in Fball only w/ the MWC... then morph into a Full Membership if it works out down the road... or join a P5 Conference if that becomes available.  

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14 hours ago, utenation said:

Lol at "triggered". I love kicking BYU and their fans while they are down or up. I'm just evil. No triggering needed. I actually laugh out loud when I see someone with BYU gear on this year. Told an old man just the other day that he had balls for wearing a BYU shirt in public.

Hilarious!

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1 hour ago, RAMification said:

Great article.  Thank you.  From the article you linked :   "Yet as Virginia pulled, circumstances at BYU began to push Mendenhall away. No issue loomed larger than the program’s shift toward independence, which occurred prior to the 2011 season.

“I don’t think it’s sustainable,” he said of BYU’s independent status. “I was trying everything I knew how to do to advance and pioneer that part. If I were to be really blunt about it, I took it as far as I could go in relation to that setting of independence.

“After all that and setting all that foundation and direction, there became a point where I was guardian, custodian of that direction – where it was, I’m not sure now if I’m one supposed to be doing that here.” 

>>>>  is this a nice way of saying "OOOOppps, maybe we/I took this scheduling thing toooo far ????   

>>>>> The entire article supports my ORIGINAL Question/Premise >>>>>>  Bronco was correct that the current BYU model for Independence (which is a copy of ND's model), is NOT sustainable.   Not sustainable for him as a great, proven, experienced HC... we'll see if it is sustainable for BYU as an Institution. 

>>>>> No matter what happens, BYU Fball will endure.   Because as a Mission out-reach tool for the LDS Church (which is what the Borg stated the Fball program was), they can always underwrite the Fball program for Millions of $$$$'s.   And BYU Fball will continue to search for another Great HC to return BYU to it's former place of being almost as good as Boise & the Utes!!  :)

And yes, I goofed re Bronco being a BYU Alum.  My apologies.  Was it Whittingham I was confusing as a BYU Alum?  Or Crowton?  

 

I'm sure this has been repeated here ad nauseam, but let me remind you what he meant by the "sustainable" comment.  He was saying that it's not sustainable to be at an independent (or G5) revenue level when the P5 conferences make so much more:

"He also said to remain as an independent is not sustainable when Power 5 conferences continue to earn $25 to $30 million a year and have superior resources."

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865631373/Mendenhall-opens-up-about-BYUs-indepedence-in-the-new-world-reality.html

In other words, going to a G5 conference like the Mountain West with a possible decrease in revenue would not help the sustainability argument.  The only conference membership change that could be considered sustainable according to Mendenhall himself would be getting into a P5 conference.  Maybe that's why he took a job with a school in a P5 conference.

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14 hours ago, utenation said:

Lol at "triggered". I love kicking BYU and their fans while they are down or up. I'm just evil. No triggering needed. I actually laugh out loud when I see someone with BYU gear on this year. Told an old man just the other day that he had balls for wearing a BYU shirt in public.

^ ^ ^ I'm feeling nostalgic. ^ ^ ^

Boom goes the dynamite.

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1 hour ago, RAMification said:

I'd say 10-3 ranked #25 w/ huge Win over Ole Miss & 1 pt loss to UT was an "A" rating... three 8-5's & a 9-4 seem like "B" rating to me w/more Big Wins over Texas, Neb, UVa, Wash & Boise.  I'm guessing that had BYU stayed in the MWC during that period they'd have won the MWC approx. 2 to 3 times (we've discussed this before), and have gone to NY6 Bowl at least 1 time.  THIS IS NOT MEDIOCRE, especially considering the SOS's.

Agree, ESPN shouldn't shave BYU as it is a great bargain.  But there is that problem with ESPN cash-flows, and the Rich keep getting richer... while the poor get poorer (Jim Delany is devilishly smart!!)

BYU felt it had to go Indy, 90% because of UU's invite to P10.  Now BYU's finding it difficult to back peddle itself into another G5 Conference situation... because even the LDS Believers will spot the excuses as LIES & inconsistencies.  And no P5 wants BYU.  

The best Strategy for BYU, IMHO, is to hire Urban Meyer & tone down the schedule.  And since that ain't happening --- get a Assoc. Membership in Fball only w/ the MWC... then morph into a Full Membership if it works out down the road... or join a P5 Conference if that becomes available.  

Ole Miss and Texas were not good teams that year.  Ole Miss won like 2 or 3 games that year.  BYU lost to a 2 win Virginia team a few years ago.  BYU hasn't beaten Washington lately.  They beat Washington State a few years ago when they had a losing record, Mike Leach's debut season.  They've lost to some mediocre Utah teams, and some good Utah teams.  Winning the MWC wouldn't have gotten BYU anything those years, as teams like Houston and Central Florida had magical years and went to the Access Bowl type of games.  Western Michigan was the most recent one that went over teams from here.  They've had some good wins like @Michigan State, @Nebraska, and against Miss State the last few years.  I consider Boise a good win too.  Overall, it's been just kind of meh, with independence.  They did it for money, they've had no shortage of bad home games since going independent.  There's a lot I don't like about it.  The things I don't like about it wouldn't be made better by being here, as much as I like playing the teams here.

BYU went independent because they didn't see a future for them in a league that had been significantly weakened by expansion and loss of marquee programs, and while SDSU has improved over the time BYU has been independent, the rest of the league has done worse over that time.

Just because BYU has had a bad year this year doesn't mean independence is a failure.  It's one year.  BYU's historical normal is an 8-9 win year, which is what independence has been.  We already have an associate membership deal with the MWC for football.  We've played a bunch of MWC teams as an independent.

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27 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

Ole Miss and Texas were not good teams that year.  Ole Miss won like 2 or 3 games that year.  BYU lost to a 2 win Virginia team a few years ago.  BYU hasn't beaten Washington lately.  They beat Washington State a few years ago when they had a losing record, Mike Leach's debut season.  They've lost to some mediocre Utah teams, and some good Utah teams.  Winning the MWC wouldn't have gotten BYU anything those years, as teams like Houston and Central Florida had magical years and went to the Access Bowl type of games.  Western Michigan was the most recent one that went over teams from here.  They've had some good wins like @Michigan State, @Nebraska, and against Miss State the last few years.  I consider Boise a good win too.  Overall, it's been just kind of meh, with independence.  They did it for money, they've had no shortage of bad home games since going independent.  There's a lot I don't like about it.  The things I don't like about it wouldn't be made better by being here, as much as I like playing the teams here.

BYU went independent because they didn't see a future for them in a league that had been significantly weakened by expansion and loss of marquee programs, and while SDSU has improved over the time BYU has been independent, the rest of the league has done worse over that time.

Just because BYU has had a bad year this year doesn't mean independence is a failure.  It's one year.  BYU's historical normal is an 8-9 win year, which is what independence has been.  We already have an associate membership deal with the MWC for football.  We've played a bunch of MWC teams as an independent.

Good & reasonable discussion.  IMHO, any win over traditional Elite powers like UT, Miss, Neb, etc, are GREAT for any G5 like BYU.  

We can disagree on BYU's ability to have stayed in the MWC, play 1 or 2 P5's/yr, rack up a 12-0 season + a couple more 11 or 10 Win seasons , win 2 or 3 MWC Championships, and gone to a NY6 Bowl.  IE, Beat a P5 or 2, throttle back the Schedule... get lucky vs. Boise... go undefeated.  Unfortunately, when BYU was at it's strongest, it left the MWC just as it became its Weakest & most prime for domination by a BYU (only BSU stood in its way).   If nothing else BYU's injuries may have been less in volume & severity. 

"BYU went independent because they didn't see a future for them in a league that had been significantly weakened by expansion and loss of marquee programs"... this is poppycock that's easily proven silly.  If that was the case, why'd BYU try to setup & enter the significantly weaker WAC... which had already lost Boise & Fresno ???   Your DUMBASS University pulled a 3-fer... killing the WAC, while damaging the MWC, while damaging your MBB team's competitiveness.  :)

BYU can & will recover, but not to the levels it enjoyed in the MWC & early Indy under Bronco.  

Yep, all of the MWC has noticed that BYU has been "returning to MWC", which it so felt a need to leave, because the MWC had become sooo "weakened".  Again, your Leaders rely on BYU followers having weak & forgetful minds.  (excluding the BYU posters who hang over here w/ all us MWC cool-kids).  :) 

BYU is led by pure Bullshi**ers, who freaked out when UU bolted, and felt the need to "save face".  BYU leaders made a horrible joke of their Institution & Fball program, in the process of trying to cover up what's now become OBVIOUS.  No P5 Conference wants to associate w/ BYU, under any circumstances.  Like Texas, BYU is bad-news, non-PC, and a proven poor Conference mate.  Unlike Texas, BYU is not financially worth the pain required to partner with.  

Still Friends, JB??

 

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20 minutes ago, RAMification said:

Good & reasonable discussion.  IMHO, any win over traditional Elite powers like UT, Miss, Neb, etc, are GREAT for any G5 like BYU.  

We can disagree on BYU's ability to have stayed in the MWC, play 1 or 2 P5's/yr, rack up a 12-0 season + a couple more 11 or 10 Win seasons , win 2 or 3 MWC Championships, and gone to a NY6 Bowl.  IE, Beat a P5 or 2, throttle back the Schedule... get lucky vs. Boise... go undefeated.  Unfortunately, when BYU was at it's strongest, it left the MWC just as it became its Weakest & most prime for domination by a BYU (only BSU stood in its way).   If nothing else BYU's injuries may have been less in volume & severity. 

"BYU went independent because they didn't see a future for them in a league that had been significantly weakened by expansion and loss of marquee programs"... this is poppycock that's easily proven silly.  If that was the case, why'd BYU try to setup & enter the significantly weaker WAC... which had already lost Boise & Fresno ???   Your DUMBASS University pulled a 3-fer... killing the WAC, while damaging the MWC, while damaging your MBB team's competitiveness.  :)

BYU can & will recover, but not to the levels it enjoyed in the MWC & early Indy under Bronco.  

Yep, all of the MWC has noticed that BYU has been "returning to MWC", which it so felt a need to leave, because the MWC had become sooo "weakened".  Again, your Leaders rely on BYU followers having weak & forgetful minds.  (excluding the BYU posters who hang over here w/ all us MWC cool-kids).  :) 

BYU is led by pure Bullshi**ers, who freaked out when UU bolted, and felt the need to "save face".  BYU leaders made a horrible joke of their Institution & Fball program, in the process of trying to cover up what's now become OBVIOUS.  No P5 Conference wants to associate w/ BYU, under any circumstances.  Like Texas, BYU is bad-news, non-PC, and a proven poor Conference mate.  Unlike Texas, BYU is not financially worth the pain required to partner with.  

Still Friends, JB??

 

BYU tried to enter the WAC for their non-revenue sports, with a scheduling agreement for football.  You'll remember that Boise was happy to schedule a 10 year series with BYU, so they didn't exactly need the MWC to get Boise games.  Everyone was still in the WAC except for Boise when BYU did that.  Only after the MWC invited Nevada and Fresno did BYU look to the WCC.  You act like bball here has been some boon of some sort since BYU left.  This has gone from a 5 bid league to a one bid league in 4-5 years.  The WCC has been the stronger league the last few years, and that's laughable, because the WCC isn't good. 

Show me where BYU would have ended up in an Access Bowl in any of these years if they were here?  In 2011-12, nobody from the G5 went to a big bowl game.  After that, we saw NIU go to a game and get destroyed.  Then we saw UCF go to a game with Blake Bortles and an 11-1 record. We then saw a 2 loss Boise team go to the game and beat Arizona, and BYU lost to Boise by a lot that year, so BYU wouldn't have gone no matter what happened because they wouldn't have won this league due to losing to Boise.  After that, Houston went and beat Florida State.  Last year Western Michigan went and got beaten by Michigan.  Even if BYU won this league any of those years, it wouldn't have resulted in an Access Bowl game for BYU.

Maybe in 2006-2009 if the rules were different it would have, as BYU had some good teams with 2 losses during that time, but the rules were different then.  We're seeing a lower and lower quality of teams in these games as time goes on.  Nobody would have ever let a G5 team in with 1-2 losses, and now they've done that a few times with pretty mixed results.

You're entitled to your opinion about BYU as a partner, but you're not entitled to your own facts.  BYU wouldn't have benefitted any more from being here during the timeframe you've stated from a competitive standpoint.  Financially, independence has been a no brainer, though us as fans don't see that money.

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2 hours ago, Pelado said:

 

I'm sure this has been repeated here ad nauseam, but let me remind you what he meant by the "sustainable" comment.  He was saying that it's not sustainable to be at an independent (or G5) revenue level when the P5 conferences make so much more:

"He also said to remain as an independent is not sustainable when Power 5 conferences continue to earn $25 to $30 million a year and have superior resources."

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865631373/Mendenhall-opens-up-about-BYUs-indepedence-in-the-new-world-reality.html

In other words, going to a G5 conference like the Mountain West with a possible decrease in revenue would not help the sustainability argument.  The only conference membership change that could be considered sustainable according to Mendenhall himself would be getting into a P5 conference.  Maybe that's why he took a job with a school in a P5 conference.

Don't you comprehend that Bronco was handed the Independence Decision by BYU dumbass leaders who freaked when UU got P5 invite.  Bronco & the Holmoe chartered the best course they could, given that Indy strategy was fixed.  They decided on a course that was spin-able "to save face" & that could possibly/hopefully make BYU lots of $$$'s AND a Big Name.... by either of 2 ways: 

1) make $30M/yr like Notre Dame as an Indy, (by playing & beating an uber tough schedule, to become a house-hold name Nationally)... 

2) gain a P5 invitation to make $30M/yr (by playing & beating an uber tough schedule, thus proving to be a highly competitive Value-Add to some P5 Conference). 

It was a hell of a try by Bronco/Holmoe, with the exact right course.  But Bronco found that he personally lacked the ability to accomplish what Urban & Peterson & Brian Kelley had done as G5 Coaches .  Which was to find a way to consistently out-wit & out-Coach your larger more prominent P5 Programs who possess farrrrr more $$$$$'s.  He could not make that model work, thus it was unsustainable, at least for him 

In his own words, he realized he's not the Guy -- "“I don’t think it’s sustainable,” he said of BYU’s independent status. “I was trying everything I knew how to do to advance and pioneer that part [ie, scheduling 4 to 5 games/yr vs Nat'l Powerhouse names/brands]. If I were to be really blunt about it, I took it as far as I could go in relation to that setting of independence."

“After all that and setting all that foundation and direction, there became a point where I was guardian, custodian of that direction – where it was, I’m not sure now if I’m one supposed to be doing that here.”

U may try to spin it however you like, but what he said was Unsustainable, in his own personal experience & view, was INDEPENDENCE.  He said nothing about Fball programs in G5 conferences being UNSUSTAINABLE.   Here's his quote from your article:   "He also said to remain as an independent is not sustainable when Power 5 conferences continue to earn $25 to $30 million a year and have superior resources."

Aren't you glad that we put that non-sense to bed??  You can sleep soundly knowing that in Bronco's humble opinion, BYU's Indy course is unsustainable, by a HC of his caliber??   Who ya gonna call, now that Sitake's staff has been exposed for what it is???  Les Miles?  Bob Stoops??  Brady Hoke??   

BYU's Leadership forced it's Fball Program to chart an Unsustainable Model... all to save face... earn $1M or $2M more/yr than Boise ... and plant LDS seeds among the Fball Fans across the country.   Was all of the BYU Lies & Backstabbing & Damages done to other Fball programs & Conferences,,, was it really necessary & really worth it to BYU ???   Karma is a bitch!

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53 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

BYU tried to enter the WAC for their non-revenue sports, with a scheduling agreement for football.  You'll remember that Boise was happy to schedule a 10 year series with BYU, so they didn't exactly need the MWC to get Boise games.  Everyone was still in the WAC except for Boise when BYU did that.  Only after the MWC invited Nevada and Fresno did BYU look to the WCC.  You act like bball here has been some boon of some sort since BYU left.  This has gone from a 5 bid league to a one bid league in 4-5 years.  The WCC has been the stronger league the last few years, and that's laughable, because the WCC isn't good. 

Show me where BYU would have ended up in an Access Bowl in any of these years if they were here?  In 2011-12, nobody from the G5 went to a big bowl game.  After that, we saw NIU go to a game and get destroyed.  Then we saw UCF go to a game with Blake Bortles and an 11-1 record. We then saw a 2 loss Boise team go to the game and beat Arizona, and BYU lost to Boise by a lot that year, so BYU wouldn't have gone no matter what happened because they wouldn't have won this league due to losing to Boise.  After that, Houston went and beat Florida State.  Last year Western Michigan went and got beaten by Michigan.  Even if BYU won this league any of those years, it wouldn't have resulted in an Access Bowl game for BYU.

Maybe in 2006-2009 if the rules were different it would have, as BYU had some good teams with 2 losses during that time, but the rules were different then.  We're seeing a lower and lower quality of teams in these games as time goes on.  Nobody would have ever let a G5 team in with 1-2 losses, and now they've done that a few times with pretty mixed results.

You're entitled to your opinion about BYU as a partner, but you're not entitled to your own facts.  BYU wouldn't have benefitted any more from being here during the timeframe you've stated from a competitive standpoint.  Financially, independence has been a no brainer, though us as fans don't see that money.

BYU would not have gone to an access bowl had they stayed in the MWC, just as they never did before leaving, but likely would have been competitive for several conference championships while they were here, probably would have been able to play in a CCG or two, which would be fun. Schedules and bowl games could have been pretty similar.

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6 minutes ago, Mano said:

BYU would not have gone to an access bowl being in the MWC, just as they never did before leaving, but likely would have been competitive for several conference championships while they were here, probably would have been able to play in a CCG or two, which would be fun. Schedules and bowl games could have been pretty similar.

I agree, but I'm not sure the admin would be happy long term with the money they gave up.  BYU could have been making more money through a different format for a long time prior to going independent.  I don't really care about budgets or money because as fans we don't see that, but what's important to me isn't always what's important to the athletic dept and the admin.  

The 2013 team benchmarked out pretty well after a tough start to the year.  Say we win the MWC in 2013 and maybe 2015, both teams beat all their MWC foes those years.  Now what?  I mean, it feels the same to me either way.

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