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Big Frog II

Assistant Basketball Coaches Being Arrested

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Some entertaining thoughts from the dumbasses over on cyclone fanatic: 

 

- "Those aren't the guys that are guilty, or at least the most guilty. It's places like OSU, UNLV, Louisville, that aren't those typical blue bloods, yet seem to come in and grab a bunch of those highly recruited guys."

- "Where in the heck are the UNLV coaches at on the list?"

- "When does UNLV get looked at?"

- "Schools that come to mind that punch above their weight in recruiting or really improved recruiting the last few years: UNLV, NC State, Miami, Florida St, USC, Auburn, Missouri, Arizona, Washington."  (because Iowa State isn't 'punching above their weight' lel)

- "The fact that Prohm refused to play ball with Juiston's handlers, and UNLV likely wrote him a check, does make me rather hopeful we will stay out of this nonsense."

- "That will be the interesting part to me is if UNLV is listed because it makes no sense that they pull in the recruits they have with out shady business going on."

- "By taking money they can't be eligible per NCAA rules, or is there some kind of exemption for UNLV?"

- "UNLV gets a break. They figure the players will just go blow it on the slots...funnel the money back to the local economy."

 

 

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15 hours ago, 4UNLV said:

Here's the thing. Yes, the FBI is going to take down some big boys. But as I mentioned earlier, the NCAA has been caught with their pants down, and if THEY survive, they will be pissed and embarrassed about letting things get so out of control. They knew what was going on, but were complicit because of the $$$. So anyway, they will try to wield their mighty sword and wreak havoc on somebody they CAN get to once the FBI is done embarrassing them. 

There really is a little truth to the joke tarkanian made about being so mad at Kentucky they gave (whoever it was, lol) two years probation. That's what they did with a little upstart unlv when ucla was blatantly cheating. they were letting wooden do whatever he wanted, Tarkanian called them out on it, somebody had to be punished, so he won that lottery.

It will happen to somebody.

Seems as though you're correct the NCAA was caught with its pants down but do we really know the NCAA was aware of what was going on? I highly doubt the FBI would share such information with the NCAA or anybody else.

But from the broader perspective you raise, this stuff is further evidence of the impotence of the NCAA. The NCAA once had a lot of power. However, it lost control over the broadcasting of games with the Supreme Court's University of Oklahoma decision in the early 1980s and although it imposed the death penalty on SMU in 1987, it got such pushback from so doing, the NCAA hasn't imposed such a penalty on any school in the 30 years since and it clearly no longer holds even the slightest control over conference composition. Not only that but when the big boys of college football threaten to pull out of the NCAA and establish their own governing body, the NCAA folds like a poker player holding a pair or deuces.

I'll always think that when Oren Hatch started making waves about the power conferences maybe having an unlawful monopoly that he was somewhat bought off by the University of Utah being offered membership in the Pac12. Maybe if somebody in Congress with similar clout starts complaining about the NCAA, the NCAA will regrow a pair.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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16 hours ago, ph90702 said:

I haven't read through this thread. With that said, why is the FBI invokved?  Why isn't this just an NCAA issue?

A bunch of others answered but I'm not sure any said this. The FBI is a government law enforcement agency which investigates possible violations of federal criminal laws. The NCAA is a private entity whose jurisdiction extends only to enforcement of its own rules and as I said above, the NCAA no longer even has much clout doing that.

Edit: Just noticed that StanfordAggie pointed out that the NCAA doesn't even have subpoena authority. That is absolutely laughable and IMO, a reason for Congress to threaten to give oversight of college athletics to a government agency if the NCAA's constituent members, i.e., the universities who compose the NCAA, don't amend its regulations to give it at least that much power.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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12 minutes ago, BleedRed702 said:

Some entertaining thoughts from the dumbasses over on cyclone fanatic: 

 

- "Those aren't the guys that are guilty, or at least the most guilty. It's places like OSU, UNLV, Louisville, that aren't those typical blue bloods, yet seem to come in and grab a bunch of those highly recruited guys."

- "Where in the heck are the UNLV coaches at on the list?"

- "When does UNLV get looked at?"

- "Schools that come to mind that punch above their weight in recruiting or really improved recruiting the last few years: UNLV, NC State, Miami, Florida St, USC, Auburn, Missouri, Arizona, Washington."  (because Iowa State isn't 'punching above their weight' lel)

- "The fact that Prohm refused to play ball with Juiston's handlers, and UNLV likely wrote him a check, does make me rather hopeful we will stay out of this nonsense."

- "That will be the interesting part to me is if UNLV is listed because it makes no sense that they pull in the recruits they have with out shady business going on."

- "By taking money they can't be eligible per NCAA rules, or is there some kind of exemption for UNLV?"

- "UNLV gets a break. They figure the players will just go blow it on the slots...funnel the money back to the local economy."

 

 

I just love how the can't deal with the fact that they are in Ames, Iowa, and are a mid-major in P5 clothing.

I'm not trying to imply that UNLV is a saint in any of this. I have no idea if shady stuff is going down or not, but I'd be much more concerned about us stealing highly target recruits from Kentucky than from Iowa State.

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18 minutes ago, BleedRed702 said:

Some entertaining thoughts from the dumbasses over on cyclone fanatic: 

 

- "Those aren't the guys that are guilty, or at least the most guilty. It's places like OSU, UNLV, Louisville, that aren't those typical blue bloods, yet seem to come in and grab a bunch of those highly recruited guys."

- "Where in the heck are the UNLV coaches at on the list?"

- "When does UNLV get looked at?"

- "Schools that come to mind that punch above their weight in recruiting or really improved recruiting the last few years: UNLV, NC State, Miami, Florida St, USC, Auburn, Missouri, Arizona, Washington."  (because Iowa State isn't 'punching above their weight' lel)

- "The fact that Prohm refused to play ball with Juiston's handlers, and UNLV likely wrote him a check, does make me rather hopeful we will stay out of this nonsense."

- "That will be the interesting part to me is if UNLV is listed because it makes no sense that they pull in the recruits they have with out shady business going on."

- "By taking money they can't be eligible per NCAA rules, or is there some kind of exemption for UNLV?"

- "UNLV gets a break. They figure the players will just go blow it on the slots...funnel the money back to the local economy."

 

 

there's probably dozens of corn farmers that wont vacation in Las Vegas out of principle, you Rebels are losing the hundreds of Ames dollars that would have trickled through the local economy

 

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9 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Seems as though you're correct the NCAA was caught with its pants down but do we really know the NCAA was aware of what was going on? I highly doubt the FBI would share such information with the NCAA or anybody else.

But from the broader perspective you raise, this stuff is further evidence of the impotence of the NCAA. The NCAA once had a lot of power. However, it lost control over the broadcasting of games with the Supreme Court's University of Oklahoma decision in the early 1980s and although it imposed the death penalty on SMU in 1987, it got such pushback from so doing, the NCAA hasn't imposed such a penalty on any school in the 30 years since and it clearly no longer holds even the slightest control over conference composition. Not only that but when the big boys of college football threaten to pull out of the NCAA and establish their own governing body, the NCAA folds like a poker player holding a pair or deuces.

I'll always think that when Oren Hatch started making waves about the power conferences maybe having an unlawful monopoly that he was somewhat bought off by the University of Utah being offered membership in the Pac12. Maybe if somebody in Congress with similar clout starts complaining about the NCAA, the NCAA will regrow a pair.

I still think congressional oversight of the NCAA is coming as a result of this. Probably coming quickly too. I have a feeling that will result in the NCAA getting more power over the P5. All congress has to do is wave the federal funds stick over the P5 and they will have to play ball.

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15 hours ago, Headbutt said:

And the NCAA has had every opportunity to gain those investigative powers.  They've failed to do so.  At the very least, all they had to do was turn over enforcement to the DOJ.  No effort ever to have any teeth, because teeth would harm the entities that control the NCAA.  Folks act like the NCAA is some neutral agency that oversees college athletics.  It's not.  It's made up of members of college athletics and acts at the behest of those most likely to be hurt if any scandal were to arise.

You want corrupt.  It's spelled NCAA.

Say what? You're saying that the NCAA should just declare, "We're cops now. We're going to issue subpoenas, and if you don't obey our orders, you're going to jail." Or just hire the DOJ to police college athletics? WTF? Does your homeowner's association hire the DOJ to tap people's phones to make sure they are mowing their lawn and send them to jail if they don't mow it? The NCAA is a private organization. You can't suddenly decide to declare yourself a cop and start arresting people for violating the rules of your organization. That's a felony. Nor will the DOJ (or any other law enforcement agency) enforce the rules of a private organization. Buying a meal for a recruit or contacting a recruit during a dead period is not against the law even if it is against NCAA rules, so it's completely outside the purview of the DOJ.

That isn't to say that there is nothing that can be done to improve the NCAA's enforcement powers. For starters, I would like to see them hire people with experience in law enforcement to do their investigative work rather than women straight out of college. (They seem to only hire women for some inexplicable reason. A lot of illegal contacts between coaches and recruits occurs in men's restrooms for precisely that reason. But I digress.) But at the end of the day, they are still a private organization enforcing the organization's private rules. Unless you want Congress to pass some laws making it illegal to contact a recruit during a dead period and turn over the enforcement functions of the NCAA to law enforcement, there isn't much more that can be done. And I still find it odd that on one hand, you guys keep saying that the NCAA is a corrupt organization that only protects the interests of powerful schools, and then you turn around and say that you want to give the NCAA the same powers as law enforcement. If the NCAA is corrupt, the last thing I want to do is give them more power.

15 hours ago, 4UNLV said:

nowhere did I suggest that the ncaa has the powers that the FBI does. but the NCAA has had plenty of opportunities to nail coaches of some of the blue bloods, but would not. 1 tiny example...Coach K was caught red handed contacting (and offering) a recruit when he wasn't supposed to, and, surprise, they just changed the rule. Literally. not even a reprimand. there are countless examples, going back to john wooden. nothing. but boise buys a cheeseburger? nailed.

 

So the best example you've got is that Coach K contacted a recruit during a dead period? I don't know anything about that particular case, but this sort of thing happens all the time. Many times it's completely accidental. The rules are so complicated that even experienced coaches have trouble keeping track of when you are and are not allowed to contact recruits. I'd say it's great if they simplified the rules. In any event, can you show me an example where any school big or small got more than a slap on the wrist for contacting a recruit during a dead period. That's a very minor violation. Most likely that results in nothing more than a letter from the NCAA asking you not to do it again. If you violate the rule repeatedly, they might restrict the number of times you're allowed to contact recruits. But nobody gets serious sanctions for just contacting a recruit during a dead period. If the NCAA is as corrupt as you claim, surely you can provide a better example than that. By the way, I'm still waiting for your explanation of why the corrupt NCAA that does the bidding of wealthy schools decided to end Jim Tressel's career over a couple tattoos.

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1 hour ago, BleedRed702 said:

Some entertaining thoughts from the dumbasses over on cyclone fanatic: 

 

- "Those aren't the guys that are guilty, or at least the most guilty. It's places like OSU, UNLV, Louisville, that aren't those typical blue bloods, yet seem to come in and grab a bunch of those highly recruited guys."

- "Where in the heck are the UNLV coaches at on the list?"

- "When does UNLV get looked at?"

- "Schools that come to mind that punch above their weight in recruiting or really improved recruiting the last few years: UNLV, NC State, Miami, Florida St, USC, Auburn, Missouri, Arizona, Washington."  (because Iowa State isn't 'punching above their weight' lel)

- "The fact that Prohm refused to play ball with Juiston's handlers, and UNLV likely wrote him a check, does make me rather hopeful we will stay out of this nonsense."

- "That will be the interesting part to me is if UNLV is listed because it makes no sense that they pull in the recruits they have with out shady business going on."

- "By taking money they can't be eligible per NCAA rules, or is there some kind of exemption for UNLV?"

- "UNLV gets a break. They figure the players will just go blow it on the slots...funnel the money back to the local economy."

 

 

I read through the first 20 pages over there last night, and laughed most of the way through it. Thanks for posting these, they're too good not to share, lol. I'll finish the rest of it tonight. 

The only one that made me hesitate for a minute was the one about RV.. who knows? But wouldn't that just be the killer... that CDR ran us into the ground in every possible way. 

 

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14 hours ago, 4UNLV said:

well, once again, nobody said that the ncaa had the capabilities of the fbi.

and yes, they have a vested interest in certain blue blood schools. to say that they have no power for UNC's fake classes that ATHLETES took to stay eligible is ludicrous. if sdsu did that they'd nail them to the cross.

I don't know if you have followed the UNC case, but they are trying their hardest to nail UNC to the cross as well. And they still might (or might try to, at least). The NCAA hasn't issued a decision in the UNC case. The problem isn't that the NCAA is corrupt. The problem is that it's not clear that UNC violated NCAA rules. There are no rules against offering easy classes or even fake classes. It's only an NCAA violation if a school offers fake classes to keep athletes eligible. At UNC, the majority of the students in the fake classes were not athletes, and there is no good evidence that the athletic department steered students to these classes. The NCAA is arguing that the intent of the classes was to help athletes even if they allowed non-athletes in the classes as well. And as I said, the case is still pending. My prediction is that the NCAA will try to strip UNC's two titles and hit them with some heavy sanctions on top of that, UNC will appeal (or sue), and they'll eventually agree to a watered down set of sanctions. But I don't know. The NCAA may decide to use the kid gloves to avoid further humiliation after getting slapped down in the Penn State and Miami cases. But you should probably wait and see what sanctions the NCAA hands out before you point to this as evidence that the NCAA is favoring UNC.

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1 minute ago, StanfordAggie said:

I don't know if you have followed the UNC case, but they are trying their hardest to nail UNC to the cross as well. And they still might (or might try to, at least). The NCAA hasn't issued a decision in the UNC case. The problem isn't that the NCAA is corrupt. The problem is that it's not clear that UNC violated NCAA rules. There are no rules against offering easy classes or even fake classes. It's only an NCAA violation if a school offers fake classes to keep athletes eligible. At UNC, the majority of the students in the fake classes were not athletes, and there is no good evidence that the athletic department steered students to these classes. The NCAA is arguing that the intent of the classes was to help athletes even if they allowed non-athletes in the classes as well. And as I said, the case is still pending. My prediction is that the NCAA will try to strip UNC's two titles and hit them with some heavy sanctions on top of that, UNC will appeal (or sue), and they'll eventually agree to a watered down set of sanctions. But I don't know. The NCAA may decide to use the kid gloves to avoid further humiliation after getting slapped down in the Penn State and Miami cases. But you should probably wait and see what sanctions the NCAA hands out before you point to this as evidence that the NCAA is favoring UNC.

I've been following it. Players stayed eligible because of fake classes. If they wanted it done it would be done. 

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On 9/26/2017 at 3:29 PM, StanfordAggie said:

The last I checked, Louisville got a postseason ban, one of the largest fines in NCAA history, and they got their title taken away. Good grief. In your world, is it "anything other than the death penalty"="no punishment"? That said, it's going to be interesting to see what happens this time. If Louisville was paying recruits while they were on probation from the stripper thing and Pitino knew about it, at the very least, the death penalty should be on the table.

And can we please stop with the pathetic "some G5 school is going to get it" sour grapes? The last I checked, the NCAA ended Jim Tressel's career because a couple of his players got free tattoos. And the NCAA dropped some extremely harsh sanctions on Louisville and USC in recent years. I know some of you think that anything short of the death penalty is a slap on the wrist, but show me a G5 school that has received sanctions anywhere close to this in recent years. The Southern Miss basketball program is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. The NCAA certainly has its shortcomings, and P5 schools are more likely to be able to afford high-priced lawyers to help them get out of trouble with the NCAA. But the NCAA is very willing to go after big schools if there is proof of wrongdoing. Normally collecting proof is difficult since NCAA investigators don't have subpoena power. This time, however, we have the feds going after cheating programs with subpoenas, wiretaps, secret informants, and so on. I don't know if we'll see the death penalty, but I think a number of programs are going to end up with some really harsh sanctions by the time this is over.

Louisville self imposed the postseason ban, Louisville was fined $5,000 by the NCAA

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2 minutes ago, StanfordAggie said:

I don't know if you have followed the UNC case, but they are trying their hardest to nail UNC to the cross as well. And they still might (or might try to, at least). The NCAA hasn't issued a decision in the UNC case. The problem isn't that the NCAA is corrupt. The problem is that it's not clear that UNC violated NCAA rules. There are no rules against offering easy classes or even fake classes. It's only an NCAA violation if a school offers fake classes to keep athletes eligible. At UNC, the majority of the students in the fake classes were not athletes, and there is no good evidence that the athletic department steered students to these classes. The NCAA is arguing that the intent of the classes was to help athletes even if they allowed non-athletes in the classes as well. And as I said, the case is still pending. My prediction is that the NCAA will try to strip UNC's two titles and hit them with some heavy sanctions on top of that, UNC will appeal (or sue), and they'll eventually agree to a watered down set of sanctions. But I don't know. The NCAA may decide to use the kid gloves to avoid further humiliation after getting slapped down in the Penn State and Miami cases. But you should probably wait and see what sanctions the NCAA hands out before you point to this as evidence that the NCAA is favoring UNC.

Lol is all i can say.

Do you work for the ncaa? You seem really threatened by all this talk. :whistle:

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1 minute ago, 4UNLV said:

I've been following it. Players stayed eligible because of fake classes. If they wanted it done it would be done. 

Well you don't know what really happened. The NCAA is a stand-up institution that is blessing the lives of all these student athletes. They would never do anything corrupt or be looking out for their own interests and gain! They are completely and wholly equal and fair with every single college and university they are over! I'm clearly smarter than you and know the facts better, so don't try to tell me otherwise.

-Stanford Aggie

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On 9/27/2017 at 9:52 AM, SharkTanked said:

The timing is strange, but when is it not? What happened 3 years ago that made the FBI want to investigate this? It's curious for sure.

It actually started with an unreleated case the FBI was doing with the SEC. In return for a softer sentence this guy said he was going to talk about funneling players and money in college football. This was back in 2013

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8 minutes ago, 4UNLV said:

I've been following it. Players stayed eligible because of fake classes. If they wanted it done it would be done. 

literally this.   The NCAA is toothless because its upper echelon member schools wanted it toothless.   

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6 minutes ago, wolfpack1 said:

It actually started with an unreleated case the FBI was doing with the SEC. In return for a softer sentence this guy said he was going to talk about funneling players and money in college football. This was back in 2013

I know how it started. I'm just wondering why the FBI chose to pursue it.

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1 hour ago, SharkTanked said:

I just love how the can't deal with the fact that they are in Ames, Iowa, and are a mid-major in P5 clothing.

I'm not trying to imply that UNLV is a saint in any of this. I have no idea if shady stuff is going down or not, but I'd be much more concerned about us stealing highly target recruits from Kentucky than from Iowa State.

I think AB had a Kentucky offer.

Honestly, I'm nervous about UNLV's possible involvement. We all were amazed at how Rice was instantly able to start nabbing these 5 stars.  The shoe fits is all I'm saying.

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