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Trump, Pelosi & Schumer reach deal on DACA recipients

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7 minutes ago, happycamper said:

No. Nothing will change without the economic situation changing. All enforcement will do is strain nearly failed states even more. Hello more illegal immigrants!!!!!!

You guys aren't even trying to fix the problem.

Neither are you guys, right?

My point, which you missed, is that none of our laws, solutions being debated, whether they come from me, you or the Blessed Mother matter if we chose not to enforce them.

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10 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Neither are you guys, right?

My point, which you missed, is that none of our laws, solutions being debated, whether they come from me, you or the Blessed Mother matter if we chose not to enforce them.

I did! I pointed out that we have to change the economic conditions here and there and I also pointed out that most new illegal immigration is through overstaying of legal entry, whose cure is worse than the disease. I've pointed out multiple times on this board what I think needs to happen and, from what I've seen uniquely among posters, while that would actually work. 

Big economic aid to Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala, investment in labor saving technology in industries, investment in travel schools so families can, say, follow the picking seasons around the country without ruining their kid's education, creation of a true guest worker program that enforces, say, 150% of US minimum wage at low skill jobs, and frankly more stringent tourist visas for Asian nations (maybe include putting up a bond?). I don't want to "cure" illegal immigration by throwing brown people into hellholes, I want to end it by regularizing the carrot and breaking the stick. 

Illegal immigrants are already moving in to a shitty situation. Making it harder on them won't stop them from coming. It will make them better at hiding from the system whose billions of dollars create a need that no free market democracy will be able to squash. 

The biggest aid we have against illegal immigration is Mexico's booming economy. It's worked better than any policy, from massive deportation to overall amnesty, that we've tried in 50 years. Why not actually, you know, look and see what has worked?

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9 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I did! I pointed out that we have to change the economic conditions here and there and I also pointed out that most new illegal immigration is through overstaying of legal entry, whose cure is worse than the disease. I've pointed out multiple times on this board what I think needs to happen and, from what I've seen uniquely among posters, while that would actually work. 

Big economic aid to Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala, investment in labor saving technology in industries, investment in travel schools so families can, say, follow the picking seasons around the country without ruining their kid's education, creation of a true guest worker program that enforces, say, 150% of US minimum wage at low skill jobs, and frankly more stringent tourist visas for Asian nations (maybe include putting up a bond?). I don't want to "cure" illegal immigration by throwing brown people into hellholes, I want to end it by regularizing the carrot and breaking the stick. 

Illegal immigrants are already moving in to a shitty situation. Making it harder on them won't stop them from coming. It will make them better at hiding from the system whose billions of dollars create a need that no free market democracy will be able to squash. 

The biggest aid we have against illegal immigration is Mexico's booming economy. It's worked better than any policy, from massive deportation to overall amnesty, that we've tried in 50 years. Why not actually, you know, look and see what has worked?

Most of the above are possible solutions, but they require laws and rules that support them.  If we chose to not support those laws, they're useless in controlling illegal immigration.  That being the case, why would any immigrants voluntarily engage in a guest worker program, worry about tourist visa bonds, etc.  I'm not being critical of your ideas here.

If we're not going to enforce our laws, everything fails.

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5 hours ago, happycamper said:

So, yes, you'd like to resemble a Soviet dictatorship. Force all businesses, big and small, under huge regulatory burden. Effectively remove cash and make every single person's transactions trackable. Force businesses to use labor that doesn't exist domestically to go bankrupt. You know - American owned businesses that put food on the table?

Deport those that are caught? You mean like we already do? End sanctuary cities? You mean remove the last vestige of separation between the states and the federal government? 

"Every other nation on Earth does this" No, they don't dude. Not even close. Nations we curl our lip to be compared to do this. 

So... DACA is a disaster because young people who speak English might not be punished for the sins of their parents? I really don't get this. 

Your ideas seem to have zero to do with ending any kind of illegal immigration and more to do with ramming the big dick of government down everyone's throats while punishing the people who are the victims of illegal immigration. Great job dude. You've done zero to alleviate the push factors of illegal immigration, you've done little to alleviate the economic issues that make hiring illegal immigrants necessary or even attractive. Your solution is like treating breast cancer by punching women in the tit. 

 

E Verify is not a huge regulatory burden. It actually works. http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/302936-forget-the-fence-e-verify-will-really-shut-down-the Don't let facts get in your way. You don't know what you are talking about.

Your argument about sanctuary cities is stupid. There are already existing immigration laws that sanctuary cities are violating right now. How is that the 'last vestige of seperation between the states and the federal government'? If you want to talk about states rights I am all for it but you don't even comprehend immigration isn't a state function it is a federal function. You are for openly violating federal law. So tell me what federal law can I violate and not be charged? 

Yes every nation on Earth has immigration policies. Do you know what you have to do to get a legal work visa to Mexico?  A key criterion that the Mexican authorities require for the issuance of a Temporary Resident Visa is that the applicant prove that they have ‘sufficient funds to sustain themselves while in Mexico’ and/or a proven steady income. The financial requirements are based in Mexican pesos, and the financial criteria were formalized following the introduction of the new immigration law that was enacted in 2012. If you can't they deny you entry. If you want to be granted a permanent visa you 'must apply for retirement status and prove they have sufficient monthly income (or substantial assets) to support themselves'. They also deport illiegal entrants or shuttle them to the U.S. https://www.mexperience.com/lifestyle/living-in-mexico/visas-and-immigration/ Instead of just making stupid arguments that no other nation enforces their immigration policies why don't you actually look at other countries policies? You know what America does that no other country does for illegals? it gives them medical coverage and educates their children for free and we pay for it. 

You didn't even get my point about DACA. If those eligible get a green card that is one thing. Citizenship is another. With a green card they can stay and work(with no voting rights) but their families are not eligible to come to the US. If they are granted citizenship they are eligible to emigrate to the US. That means potentially millions more people with low skills will move here legally. That doesn't benefit this nation. It dilutes jobs for low skilled American workers. 

Your solution is not less government it is more. You're the one that wants the US taxpayer to spend billions of dollars to help build the economies of Central and South America. Since 1946 the US taxpayer has given 146 billion dollars in aid to Latin America and the Caribbean. In 2017 the figure is 1.7 billion dollars in aid. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R44647.pdf This doesn't even include the work of the Peace Corps or numerous American religious groups that help in Latin America or the US charities that pour money into these countries. 

How much more do you want to give? Why is it our responsibility to build the economies of these nations and pay for it? What is the responsibility of those living there? 

You want to alk about the victims of illegal immigration? Why don't you start here. http://www.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp That is a memorial for American citizens killed by illegal immigrants.

Is that not enough for you? How about the costs illegals burden the American taxpayer with:

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality

Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.

At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens. 

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury. http://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-and-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers-2013  

You are naive and shockingly ignorant to the costs we already pay on this problem. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rebelbacker said:

E Verify is not a huge regulatory burden. It actually works. http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/302936-forget-the-fence-e-verify-will-really-shut-down-the Don't let facts get in your way. You don't know what you are talking about.

Your argument about sanctuary cities is stupid. There are already existing immigration laws that sanctuary cities are violating right now. How is that the 'last vestige of seperation between the states and the federal government'? If you want to talk about states rights I am all for it but you don't even comprehend immigration isn't a state function it is a federal function. You are for openly violating federal law. So tell me what federal law can I violate and not be charged? 

Yes every nation on Earth has immigration policies. Do you know what you have to do to get a legal work visa to Mexico?  A key criterion that the Mexican authorities require for the issuance of a Temporary Resident Visa is that the applicant prove that they have ‘sufficient funds to sustain themselves while in Mexico’ and/or a proven steady income. The financial requirements are based in Mexican pesos, and the financial criteria were formalized following the introduction of the new immigration law that was enacted in 2012. If you can't they deny you entry. If you want to be granted a permanent visa you 'must apply for retirement status and prove they have sufficient monthly income (or substantial assets) to support themselves'. They also deport illiegal entrants or shuttle them to the U.S. https://www.mexperience.com/lifestyle/living-in-mexico/visas-and-immigration/ Instead of just making stupid arguments that no other nation enforces their immigration policies why don't you actually look at other countries policies? You know what America does that no other country does for illegals? it gives them medical coverage and educates their children for free and we pay for it. 

You didn't even get my point about DACA. If those eligible get a green card that is one thing. Citizenship is another. With a green card they can stay and work(with no voting rights) but their families are not eligible to come to the US. If they are granted citizenship they are eligible to emigrate to the US. That means potentially millions more people with low skills will move here legally. That doesn't benefit this nation. It dilutes jobs for low skilled American workers. 

Your solution is not less government it is more. You're the one that wants the US taxpayer to spend billions of dollars to help build the economies of Central and South America. Since 1946 the US taxpayer has given 146 billion dollars in aid to Latin America and the Caribbean. In 2017 the figure is 1.7 billion dollars in aid. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R44647.pdf This doesn't even include the work of the Peace Corps or numerous American religious groups that help in Latin America or the US charities that pour money into these countries. 

How much more do you want to give? Why is it our responsibility to build the economies of these nations and pay for it? What is the responsibility of those living there? 

You want to alk about the victims of illegal immigration? Why don't you start here. http://www.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp That is a memorial for American citizens killed by illegal immigrants.

Is that not enough for you? How about the costs illegals burden the American taxpayer with:

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality

Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.

At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens. 

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury. http://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-and-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers-2013  

You are naive and shockingly ignorant to the costs we already pay on this problem. 

According to the CBO: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.”  According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.

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53 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

According to the CBO: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.”  According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-fiscal-drain-of-illegal-immigrants-is-6-times-cost-of-deportation/article/2630500

Researchers agree that illegal immigrants overwhelmingly have modest levels of education — most have not completed high school or have only a high school education. There is also agreement that immigrants with this level of education are a significant net fiscal drain, creating more in costs for government than they pay in taxes.

The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine estimated the lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) of immigrants based on their educational attainment. Averaging those estimates and applying them to the education level of illegal immigrants shows a net fiscal drain of $65,292 per illegal — excluding any costs for their children.

Based on this estimate, there is a total lifetime fiscal drain of $746.3 billion. This assumes 11.43 million illegal immigrants are in the country based on the U.S. government's most recent estimate.

The fiscal cost created by illegal immigrants of $746.3 billion compares to total a cost of deportation of $124.1 billion, assuming a FY 2016 cost per deportation, or $67.6 billion using FY 2012 deportation costs.

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18 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-fiscal-drain-of-illegal-immigrants-is-6-times-cost-of-deportation/article/2630500

Researchers agree that illegal immigrants overwhelmingly have modest levels of education — most have not completed high school or have only a high school education. There is also agreement that immigrants with this level of education are a significant net fiscal drain, creating more in costs for government than they pay in taxes.

The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine estimated the lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) of immigrants based on their educational attainment. Averaging those estimates and applying them to the education level of illegal immigrants shows a net fiscal drain of $65,292 per illegal — excluding any costs for their children.

Based on this estimate, there is a total lifetime fiscal drain of $746.3 billion. This assumes 11.43 million illegal immigrants are in the country based on the U.S. government's most recent estimate.

The fiscal cost created by illegal immigrants of $746.3 billion compares to total a cost of deportation of $124.1 billion, assuming a FY 2016 cost per deportation, or $67.6 billion using FY 2012 deportation costs.

I think you should broaden your horizon in terms of sources. That site seems to have a pretty distinct agenda. 

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28 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

And the CBO has a long history of being wrong, dramatically wrong. http://www.dailywire.com/news/14454/7-times-congressional-budget-office-got-its-aaron-bandler#exit-modal

That certainly doesn't make a very partisan site right. There is plenty of documentation out there supporting the fact that the economic contribution of undocumented immigrants is greater than the cost. 

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6 hours ago, happycamper said:

Uh huh. And how do you prove it? How do you prevent witchhunts? Hell with a 5k fine, how do you keep illegals from coming up to get hired and have their buddies turn them in for a share of that?

How would there be "instantly" no jobs for illegals? It's not like the American work force is going to magically produce the skills, workforce, and transient nature to work these jobs.

Yer doing your hypocrite thing again against the free market and you suck at arguing against your own grain

It is all pretty easy, come on you are smarter than this.

You create an employee standard of verification.  Something like an employee would have to present a social security card and 3 forms of I.D., one a picture I.D. Copies in the employers file would ensure the employer against a fine.

Congress would be well advised to pass a guest worker program so these same illegals could come back across the border as legal workers.   

You are doing your stupid thing again, this would make capitalism fair.   Employers and employees wouldn't have to compete against illegal labor and employers willing to employ the same.

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47 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

It is all pretty easy, come on you are smarter than this.

You create an employee standard of verification.  Something like an employee would have to present a social security card and 3 forms of I.D., one a picture I.D. Copies in the employers file would ensure the employer against a fine.

Congress would be well advised to pass a guest worker program so these same illegals could come back across the border as legal workers.   

You are doing your stupid thing again, this would make capitalism fair.   Employers and employees wouldn't have to compete against illegal labor and employers willing to employ the same.

3 forms of ID?!

Now you're pushing a lot of legal Americans on the fringes out of legal work... or, more likely, all you're doing is making a lot of the low-margin high labor positions go from the white/gray to gray/black markets. Great! Now we have a new thing for organized crime to make money on.

You are smarter than this. You just want the solution to be easy so you can irritate liberals because you found that this is an easy tool to do so with. 

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5 minutes ago, happycamper said:

3 forms of ID?!

Now you're pushing a lot of legal Americans on the fringes out of legal work... or, more likely, all you're doing is making a lot of the low-margin high labor positions go from the white/gray to gray/black markets. Great! Now we have a new thing for organized crime to make money on.

You are smarter than this. You just want the solution to be easy so you can irritate liberals because you found that this is an easy tool to do so with. 

 

Everyone I know from the ditch rider mexican farm worker I hire has 3 forms of I.D.

Stop being an idiot Nancy.

To get a SS card you need a birth certificate, along with a photo I.D., you have your 3 forms of I.D right there.    Immigrants would substitute a green card or citizenship certificate for the birth certificate.

If you are too stupid to navigate that system your value in the labor force is very small.   

This is the no-brainer solution.  Only someone with no brains and racist tendencies like Democrats and their Union supporters would oppose this and a guest worker program.

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1 hour ago, Rebelbacker said:

And the CBO has a long history of being wrong, dramatically wrong. http://www.dailywire.com/news/14454/7-times-congressional-budget-office-got-its-aaron-bandler#exit-modal

Your study cites the "Center for Immigration Studies". That is a farcically terrible source on anything immigration. 

https://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-exaggerates-immigrant-welfare-use

 

The SPLC has even designated it a hate group I think. They have intimate ties with white nationalists and nativists. 

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/05/23/more-occasional-crank-2012-times-center-immigration-studies-circulated-white-nationalist

 

It is almost universally understood that immigrants both legal and illegal benefit the economy as a whole. 

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6 hours ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

Dreamers here isn't a problem. It's a tremendous benefit. 

The problem in democrats have made them criminals with their racist immigration policies they put and keep in place to keep their Union buddies happy.

It would be a huge benefit if they could get legal status but congress has to do that and democrats have blocked it at every turn.

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6 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

The problem in democrats have made them criminals with their racist immigration policies they put and keep in place to keep their Union buddies happy.

It would be a huge benefit if they could get legal status but congress has to do that and democrats have blocked it at every turn.

We've discussed this before and you know I agree with you in large part. In general I was no fan of dubyah but his 2007 bill would have been a big improvement.

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On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

E Verify is not a huge regulatory burden. It actually works. http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/302936-forget-the-fence-e-verify-will-really-shut-down-the Don't let facts get in your way. You don't know what you are talking about.

Your link is garbage. It claims Mexico's median income is 1/10 the US when it is closer to 1/5 to 1/4 ours, the link it cites for that figure doesn't even talk about median income at all, and all it does is analyze immediate tax benefits in extremely limited cases. There's zero there about my point of making small businesses suffer even more regulatory burden and pushing white/gray work into the gray/black market. 

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

Your argument about sanctuary cities is stupid. There are already existing immigration laws that sanctuary cities are violating right now. How is that the 'last vestige of seperation between the states and the federal government'? If you want to talk about states rights I am all for it but you don't even comprehend immigration isn't a state function it is a federal function. You are for openly violating federal law. So tell me what federal law can I violate and not be charged? 

Right, so local governments shouldn't be enforcing federal law. Period. Police officers I pay through local taxes should not be enforcing laws they have no authority or payment to enforce.

Sorry I like federalism. 

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

Yes every nation on Earth has immigration policies. Do you know what you have to do to get a legal work visa to Mexico?  A key criterion that the Mexican authorities require for the issuance of a Temporary Resident Visa is that the applicant prove that they have ‘sufficient funds to sustain themselves while in Mexico’ and/or a proven steady income. The financial requirements are based in Mexican pesos, and the financial criteria were formalized following the introduction of the new immigration law that was enacted in 2012. If you can't they deny you entry. If you want to be granted a permanent visa you 'must apply for retirement status and prove they have sufficient monthly income (or substantial assets) to support themselves'. They also deport illiegal entrants or shuttle them to the U.S. https://www.mexperience.com/lifestyle/living-in-mexico/visas-and-immigration/ Instead of just making stupid arguments that no other nation enforces their immigration policies why don't you actually look at other countries policies? You know what America does that no other country does for illegals? it gives them medical coverage and educates their children for free and we pay for it. 

......

Wait.

Your argument is "we should be more like Mexico with immigration"? 

Really? Notoriously stable and human rights respecting Mexico which only achieved a semblance of democracy in the '90s?

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

You didn't even get my point about DACA. If those eligible get a green card that is one thing. Citizenship is another. With a green card they can stay and work(with no voting rights) but their families are not eligible to come to the US. If they are granted citizenship they are eligible to emigrate to the US. That means potentially millions more people with low skills will move here legally. That doesn't benefit this nation. It dilutes jobs for low skilled American workers. 

Uh...

No. My argument pretty clearly showed I understood your point. It also refuted your point. I stated that a 14 year wait after a green card would mean, what with the enormous backlog we have in immigration and customs, that family members wouldn't be eligible for citizenship for a quarter of a century. That is a giant delay and means millions won't move here legally. Secondly, I pointed out that DACA kids ALREADY HAVE THEIR FAMILIES HERE WHICH IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE PROGRAM. Third, if there is legal immigration, who cares? Are you anti-illegal immigration or are you anti Mexican immigration? That's two separate arguments and your points are remarkably poorly suited to one and better suited to the other. 

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

Your solution is not less government it is more. You're the one that wants the US taxpayer to spend billions of dollars to help build the economies of Central and South America. Since 1946 the US taxpayer has given 146 billion dollars in aid to Latin America and the Caribbean. In 2017 the figure is 1.7 billion dollars in aid. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R44647.pdf This doesn't even include the work of the Peace Corps or numerous American religious groups that help in Latin America or the US charities that pour money into these countries. 

Yeah, that massive 200 mil per country per year. WHOOO!

Have you even heard of the Marshall plan? Do you even get the point of being trading partners with a nation? Do you understand that free trade makes the world POLITICALLY stabler?

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

How much more do you want to give? Why is it our responsibility to build the economies of these nations and pay for it? What is the responsibility of those living there? 

It isn't our responsibility, any more than it is our responsibility to police the seas from pirates or to prevent the Soviets from sweeping down and taking away all the best cars.

It's a policy move that would be a short term investment and long term gain. Why are you discussing any foreign policy move in terms of "responsibility"? 

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

You want to alk about the victims of illegal immigration? Why don't you start here. http://www.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp That is a memorial for American citizens killed by illegal immigrants.

Oh man! several Americans were killed by illegal immigrants as opposed to the hundreds that die trying to come here every year because of a system we have voted into place! Man those Americans who have reaped the economic benefits of a shadow economy for 60 years are sure the victims!

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

Is that not enough for you? How about the costs illegals burden the American taxpayer with:

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

Illegal immigrants contribute more than they take. Because, well, it is a lot easier to pay taxes than to take out benefits. 

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality

Lol. ok. Dividing wrong numbers doesn't give you right numbers. 

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.

So your argument is that we'd do better with a massive uneducated horde running around?

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens. 

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury. http://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-and-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers-2013  

...What? All of this is wrong or at least extremely disingenuous and has sources cherrypicked to undermine the actual point of the other articles. Your source is a eugenics supporting organization that's hellbent on stemming the tide of non-white immigration vs. NVgiant's CBO report. 

Just because you can find words on the internet doesn't mean that those words are a valid as arguing ammunition.

On 9/15/2017 at 6:22 PM, Rebelbacker said:

You are naive and shockingly ignorant to the costs we already pay on this problem. 

 

 

 

 

Your politics seem to be based on the extremely naive idea that laws and policy should be based on what is "fair" (with the unspoken expectation that fair means what feels good to you) instead of what is good policy and makes the nation stronger and wealthier 20 years down the road. It's college kid politics

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