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UNLV2001

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1 hour ago, Boise fan said:

Wow.  Apparently Cantwell ran for New York’s First Congressional District in 2010, as a Libertarian.  :hmmm:

When I hear the ravings of some self-professed libertarians here, I can see it's not so long a stretch to head off further down the right wing path.

Now I'm not saying libertarians are like Cantwell is now.  It is just an interesting bit of info.  And to their credit, he was kicked out of many libertarian groups.

  https://christophercantwell.com/2014/04/30/libertarian-party/

In fact though, he talks very lovey-dovey about the Libertarian party. 

:unsure:

Meh, the Orlando night club shooter was a registered Democrat.  What is your point?

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10 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

His racist side isn't what I would imagine libertarians might agree with.  His anti-establishment, anti-government rhetoric though, may very well resonate. 

There are varying degrees of perspective when it comes to government scope within the Libertarian Party. A vast majority believe in limited government and a small minority are anarchists. I personally don't believe in anarchy because it's impractical given human nature. But to be clear, it would be a fallacy to claim all Libertarians are anarchists. 

And to further emphasize my earlier point, the Libertarian Party is by charter against authoritarianism and fascism and bigotry cannot exist at a legislative level without authoritarian rule. 

So while that racist goon may appreciate some of the ideals of the Libertarian Party, he cannot identify with them all. Especially when it comes to the Libertarian perspective on immigration. 

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10 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

His racist side isn't what I would imagine libertarians might agree with.  His anti-establishment, anti-government rhetoric though, may very well resonate. 

You misunderstand libertarianism. It's not anarchy. It's after small, well run government that effectively protects people's natural rights.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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Ever since I subscribed to Reason (and they sold my personal data faster than I could say "freedom"), I've gotten a LOT of ads from all kinds of bizarro people and organizations. Assuming that they wouldn't send those ads if no one ever responded, I'm going with yep, libertarianism attracts a lot of weirdos. Not that this would come as a surprise. Lots of individual liberty = lots of weird people who benefit from that liberty. Every political orientation has its baggage.

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2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

You misunderstand libertarianism. It's not anarchy. It's after small, well run government that effectively protects people's natural rights.

There is a very small % of Libertarians who are anarchists. By in large, a vast majority of Libertarians are what you described. I personally believe we need laws to protect individual rights. That should be the primary role of government. 

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5 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

There is a very small % of Libertarians who are anarchists. By in large, a vast majority of Libertarians are what you described. I personally believe we need laws to protect individual rights. That should be the primary role of government. 

Well...anarchists are stupid, I can see how they'd get mixed up. It's hard to be involved in a group when being involved in a group is somewhat against personal ethics, they manage to do it though.

Part of the problem with the Libertarian party growing is they want to be so dedicatedly open to liberty in every instance, the anarchists are able to reside in the party and I feel like an imposter as a dispossessed Republican. I understand they don't want to be the diet Republican Party, but at some point there needs to be a leader who will shape it from the amorphous blob it is into something that can be built upon.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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9 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Well...anarchists are stupid, I can see how they'd get mixed up. It's hard to be involved in a group when being involved in a group is somewhat against personal ethics, they manage to do it though.

Part of the problem with the Libertarian party growing is they want to be so dedicatedly open to liberty in every instance, the anarchists are able to reside in the party and I feel like an imposter as a dispossessed Republican. I understand they don't want to be the diet Republican Party, but at some point there needs to be a leader who will shape it from the amorphous blob it is into something that can be built upon.

Personally, I would like to see Justin Amash take up that banner. 

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1 minute ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Personally, I would like to see Justin Amash take up that banner. 

I'd like to see him in the senate as a Republican. He is too valuable to lose in congress, and could do so much more in the upper house. Besides, Amash has the Rand Paul problem. Right on all the issues, but no charisma. 

The Libertarian party needs to aim for the Presidency. It can't compete nationwide against the war chests of the two major parties for congressional seats. It can only hope to steer the boat a little more towards less government. Trump proved people are willing to gamble on the executive branch, even while they mostly vote the way they always had in congressional races. We don't know who it will be, but I doubt it's one of the Libertarian leaning politicians currently in office. The person will be dynamic, and shape the party like Trump unfortunately did for the GOP.

Or it never happens. Ob la di...

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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6 hours ago, Boise fan said:

Oh he still identifies as a libertarian.  You're right, that doesn't mean Libertarians identify with him.  At least not all libertarians.  But some might.

Anyway it was an interesting tidbit of info.  Just as you like to bring up bad things about others and tell their group supporters to "own it", this guy's yours.

 

By virtue of being a self-claimed Nazi, he cannot actually be a Libertarian. Nazism, at its core, does not respect the natural law. One of the main tenants of libertarian belief is that of self-ownership. However, a stated goal of Nazism was to socially subjugate everyone to serve the state, while Libertarianism seeks nearly the exact opposite. Claiming to follow the two at the same time really means that you don't follow either. Furthermore, here's a quote from an alt-right radio show he was interviewed on.

Quote

If you listen to the first time I was on the show, all right, like, I did not get the Jew thing. Like I thought of Jews as white people with bad ideas, right?  Like, I had no idea Karl Marx was a Jew. I had never associated Jews with communism, right? And it was like the second that I made that connection, I was like, they all have to die … I’m not even a Hitlerite but I’m like ok, let’s +++++ing gas the kikes and have a race war because once I realized they were responsible for the communism, then I was like, oh, wait a second, yeah, that’s a +++++ing really good reason to +++++ing genocide a group of people.
- Chris Cantwell, Exodus Americanus,  June 26, 2017

That's not a Libertarian, that's an unhinged crazy person that's advocating genocide. 

Quote

I think chemical and biological weapons can do a great deal of good for mankind. Releasing nerve gas or some kind of lethal virus into a left wing protest could prepare the bodies for physical removal without making a big scene for the cameras or  destroying anything of value.
- Chris Cantwell, Facebook post, January 28, 2017.

There he's advocating the use of biological or chemical weapons to kill people whose political beliefs he doesn't believe in. That's not a Libertarian, that's an unhinged crazy member of the alt-right that doesn't like it when people disagree with him. Now, back to the congressional campaign that you keep coming back to. He didn't actually even run for congress. He announced a run for congress, and said that he was a Libertarian, but he never actually collected enough signatures, nor did he submit his paperwork. I could say that I was going to run for Congress as a Democrat, but if I didn't actually file any paperwork, did I really run for Congress, and did I do it as a Democrat?

You can continue to claim that because he says he's a Libertarian, therefore he is a Libertarian. I could sit here and claim that I am a Dolphin, but no matter how much I tried to claim that, I still lack the defining characteristics (especially flippers) of a Dolphin. Cantwell regularly espouses beliefs that fly straight in the face of Libertarian beliefs. He might think that he is one, but thinking you're something, and actually being something are two entirely different things. Just like I can't think myself into being a Dolphin, he can't think or claim himself into being a Libertarian, because his beliefs fly straight against Libertarian principles. 

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2 hours ago, retrofade said:

By virtue of being a self-claimed Nazi, he cannot actually be a Libertarian. Nazism, at its core, does not respect the natural law. One of the main tenants of libertarian belief is that of self-ownership. However, a stated goal of Nazism was to socially subjugate everyone to serve the state, while Libertarianism seeks nearly the exact opposite. Claiming to follow the two at the same time really means that you don't follow either. Furthermore, here's a quote from an alt-right radio show he was interviewed on.

That's not a Libertarian, that's an unhinged crazy person that's advocating genocide. 

There he's advocating the use of biological or chemical weapons to kill people whose political beliefs he doesn't believe in. That's not a Libertarian, that's an unhinged crazy member of the alt-right that doesn't like it when people disagree with him. Now, back to the congressional campaign that you keep coming back to. He didn't actually even run for congress. He announced a run for congress, and said that he was a Libertarian, but he never actually collected enough signatures, nor did he submit his paperwork. I could say that I was going to run for Congress as a Democrat, but if I didn't actually file any paperwork, did I really run for Congress, and did I do it as a Democrat?

You can continue to claim that because he says he's a Libertarian, therefore he is a Libertarian. I could sit here and claim that I am a Dolphin, but no matter how much I tried to claim that, I still lack the defining characteristics (especially flippers) of a Dolphin. Cantwell regularly espouses beliefs that fly straight in the face of Libertarian beliefs. He might think that he is one, but thinking you're something, and actually being something are two entirely different things. Just like I can't think myself into being a Dolphin, he can't think or claim himself into being a Libertarian, because his beliefs fly straight against Libertarian principles. 

I've already stated that his racist remarks and stances put him in deep water with his libertarian friends.  But while it may not be libertarian policy to support racially biased stances, that certainly doesn't mean libertarians don't have racially biased viewpoints. 

And his violent streak was well documented and repeatedly expressed to his libertarian supporters, who eventually had enough and expelled him.  Emphasis on "eventually". 

I never stated that "because he says he's a libertarian, therefore he is a libertarian", that's your insinuation.  I stated he still identifies as a libertarian.  Know the difference.

Look I get that all the libertarians here are going to be hyper defensive. It makes sense.  This guy represents everything wrong with America. 

Perhaps the next time libertarians on this board decide they are going to attack by lumping people into groups, like "liberals" or "democrats" or "socialists", etc.,  this situation might crop up in their mind to give them pause.

Oh who am I kidding? Probably not.

:D

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13 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

I've already stated that his racist remarks and stances put him in deep water with his libertarian friends.  But while it may not be libertarian policy to support racially biased stances, that certainly doesn't mean libertarians don't have racially biased viewpoints. 

And his violent streak was well documented and repeatedly expressed to his libertarian supporters, who eventually had enough and expelled him.  Emphasis on "eventually". 

I never stated that "because he says he's a libertarian, therefore he is a libertarian", that's your insinuation.  I stated he still identifies as a libertarian.  Know the difference.

Look I get that all the libertarians here are going to be hyper defensive. It makes sense.  This guy represents everything wrong with America. 

Perhaps the next time libertarians on this board decide they are going to attack by lumping people into groups, like "liberals" or "democrats" or "socialists", etc.,  this situation might crop up in their mind to give them pause.

Oh who am I kidding? Probably not.

:D

Except that yes, yes you actually did. In fact, you did it right after claiming that he identifies as a libertarian. 

9 hours ago, Boise fan said:

Oh he still identifies as a libertarian.  You're right, that doesn't mean Libertarians identify with him.  At least not all libertarians.  But some might.

Anyway it was an interesting tidbit of info.  Just as you like to bring up bad things about others and tell their group supporters to "own it", this guy's yours.

 

See, then you went on to say that he really was a libertarian, and as such libertarians are associated with his beliefs. 

Thanks for playing. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, retrofade said:

 

Except that yes, yes you actually did. In fact, you did it right after claiming that he identifies as a libertarian. 

See, then you went on to say that he really was a libertarian, and as such libertarians are associated with his beliefs. 

Thanks for playing. 

 

 

Do you even read BSU's posts?  That comment was directed at him with the goal of actually reaching him.

Geez people here have become incredibly sensitive.

 

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25 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

I've already stated that his racist remarks and stances put him in deep water with his libertarian friends.  But while it may not be libertarian policy to support racially biased stances, that certainly doesn't mean libertarians don't have racially biased viewpoints

 

So does every other party. I don't get your point. And I am a registered Democrat if you need to see my membership card to gauge my opinion.

Racism exists, to a degree, in every American. It's a byproduct of our society. The goal is to rise above it, not give in to it.

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2 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

So does every other party. I don't get your point. And I am a registered Democrat if you need to see my membership card to gauge my opinion.

Racism exists, to a degree, in every American. It's a byproduct of our society. The goal is to rise above it, not give in to it.

I was engaging BSU in those posts.  He routinely groups people and labels them. 

That was the point.  To make him think.  This was something extremely close to home for him. 

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20 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

Do you even read BSU's posts?  That comment was directed at him with the goal of actually reaching him.

Geez people here have become incredibly sensitive.

 

So wait... your excuse for what you said is that you weren't labeling all libertarians as being associated with this asshole's brand of racism, but rather than you were just associating him with @BSUTOP25? Good Lord, you're really out in the weeds now. 

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14 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

I was engaging BSU in those posts.  He routinely groups people and labels them. 

That was the point.  To make him think.  This was something extremely close to home for him. 

How is that somehow "extremely close to home" for me? Jeezus. 

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11 minutes ago, retrofade said:

So wait... your excuse for what you said is that you weren't labeling all libertarians as being associated with this asshole's brand of racism, but rather than you were just associating him with @BSUTOP25? Good Lord, you're really out in the weeds now. 

I think you need to re-read all the posts in this thread.

If it doesn't become clear, try reading them again.

 

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