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Nevada Convert

Don't Make the Mistake that Idaho Made Which Cost Them Dearly in 1960

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11 hours ago, kingpotato said:

Their football and basketball teams were consistently good under many different coaches for 15 years until they moved up. 

Think they won like 4 games in a season right before I got up there - Then Monson arrived in 79 or 80 & the program had 4 great years.........think it went down for awhile then a run of good coaches came in Kermit Davis, Larry E and another few and they had some good runs..........still nothing like the Monson year when they got to #8 ranked.

Football seemed to always be decent but never over the top great.........D-1AA back then in the Big Sky 

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21 hours ago, kingpotato said:

I don't think it's a shame. I think it'll be good for them. They'll be one of the best football teams in the FCS. Certainly top 10-15ish. Had Boise not made the jump, Idaho would have been content in the FCS. It wasn't even a thing they were considering until Boise announced they were moving up. 

 

Idaho tried to move up back in the 70s and the PCAA/Big West was ready to accept them.  I think the SBOE blocked them?

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12 minutes ago, UNLV2001 said:

Think they won like 4 games in a season right before I got up there - Then Monson arrived in 79 or 80 & the program had 4 great years.........think it went down for awhile then a run of good coaches came in Kermit Davis, Larry E and another few and they had some good runs..........still nothing like the Monson year when they got to #8 ranked.

Football seemed to always be decent but never over the top great.........D-1AA back then in the Big Sky 

They had Tim Floyd in the 80's too.

Like I said, I think they can be near the top of the Big Sky in both sports. Especially now that they are finally building a long overdue basketball arena. 

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Just now, kingpotato said:

They had Tim Floyd in the 80's too.

Like I said, I think they can be near the top of the Big Sky in both sports. Especially now that they are finally building a long overdue basketball arena. 

Floyd, that's a guy I missed..........pretty good run of coaches who went on to bigger things in P5 conferences.

No reason Idaho can't annually be at the top of the BSC and that new arena will help create a better atmosphere than a few hundred in the dome.

During the Monson years was the first time they had to add the bleachers around the court, enclosing it on the open 3 sides.......the place used to rock - The Big Sky had some good teams back then, Montana & MSU were good and Weber St generally put a decent team on the court and UNR was ok, with Billy Allen at PG, son of coach Sonny Allen............BSC had 8 schools back then. 

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Just now, SharkTanked said:

The only mistake Idaho made was allowing BSU to usurp them as the #1 football program in the state. The place is too small for two top division programs. They either didn't read the tea leaves well or didn't care?

They were very reactionary in letting their pride dictate their decisions. They couldn't stand the idea of Boise moving up and passing them. They immediately started the process of finding out if they could move up. Completely ignoring whether they should. They just weren't in a position to do it effectively. They even had to play their home games in a different state to satisfy NCAA requirements and had to fund raise to get boosters to buy mountains of tickets they weren't going to use and also give away tickets to Wazzu students, again, to satisfy attendance requirements. 

They just didn't resemble a 1-A (at the time) team without completely using smoke and mirrors. 

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3 minutes ago, kingpotato said:

They were very reactionary in letting their pride dictate their decisions. They couldn't stand the idea of Boise moving up and passing them. They immediately started the process of finding out if they could move up. Completely ignoring whether they should. They just weren't in a position to do it effectively. They even had to play their home games in a different state to satisfy NCAA requirements and had to fund raise to get boosters to buy mountains of tickets they weren't going to use and also give away tickets to Wazzu students, again, to satisfy attendance requirements. 

They just didn't resemble a 1-A (at the time) team without completely using smoke and mirrors. 

What I don't get is the problem had to have started long before that. They were the first school, first program, they had all the funding and advantages... I mean what happened? Were they solely focused on academics (which are outstanding btw), and just considered athletics a worthy past time? I mean I can't really fault that line of thinking, but unless you have unlimited resources to change tack, it's gonna cost you when it turns out there is heaps of cash in athletics that would end up boosting the academics if you only developed it.

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31 minutes ago, jdgaucho said:

 

Idaho tried to move up back in the 70s and the PCAA/Big West was ready to accept them.  I think the SBOE blocked them?

I think that was, ironically, for the benefit of BSU.

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Just now, SharkTanked said:

What I don't get is the problem had to have started long before that. They were the first school, first program, they had all the funding and advantages... I mean what happened? Were they solely focused on academics (which are outstanding btw), and just considered athletics a worthy past time? I mean I can't really fault that line of thinking, but unless you have unlimited resources to change tack, it's gonna cost you when it turns out there is heaps of cash in athletics that would end up boosting the academics if you only developed it.

The university should have never been in Moscow to begin with. It should have been in Boise, but the state felt bad when they, basically, stole the plans to build the Capitol from Lewiston and put it in Boise. They appeased the north by giving them the University, but it is just way too isolated with no real growth potential. 

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11 minutes ago, kingpotato said:

They were very reactionary in letting their pride dictate their decisions. They couldn't stand the idea of Boise moving up and passing them. They immediately started the process of finding out if they could move up. Completely ignoring whether they should. They just weren't in a position to do it effectively. They even had to play their home games in a different state to satisfy NCAA requirements and had to fund raise to get boosters to buy mountains of tickets they weren't going to use and also give away tickets to Wazzu students, again, to satisfy attendance requirements. 

They just didn't resemble a 1-A (at the time) team without completely using smoke and mirrors. 

Thanks for pontificating. Once you jizz, can you come back so we can have a constructive conversation?

 

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2 minutes ago, kingpotato said:

The university should have never been in Moscow to begin with. It should have been in Boise, but the state felt bad when they, basically, stole the plans to build the Capitol from Lewiston and put it in Boise. They appeased the north by giving them the University, but it is just way too isolated with no real growth potential. 

I get that, but can't the same be said for a lot of the Flagships? Not to mention, Waco, TX? Manhattan, KS? Pullman, WA? Corvallis, OR? Tuscon, AZ? Ames, IA? The list goes on and on. I think location is a factor, but it seems to me there is much more than that to it.

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2 minutes ago, kingpotato said:

The university should have never been in Moscow to begin with. It should have been in Boise, but the state felt bad when they, basically, stole the plans to build the Capitol from Lewiston and put it in Boise. They appeased the north by giving them the University, but it is just way too isolated with no real growth potential. 

Complete bullshit.  You're just making shit up now, man.

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Just now, SharkTanked said:

I get that, but can't the same be said for a lot of the Flagships? Not to mention, Waco, TX? Manhattan, KS? Pullman, WA? Corvallis, OR? Tuscon, AZ? Ames, IA? The list goes on and on. I think location is a factor, but it seems to me there is much more than that to it.

There is one of the problems right there. All of those places are quite a bit larger, except one, and that one is right next door to them. Plus there is no large population base close to it like you get in some of those other places. Spokane would be the closest, but it isn't that big and there is a ton of competition there when it comes to universities and allegiances. 

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8 minutes ago, VandalPride97 said:

Thanks for pontificating. Once you jizz, can you come back so we can have a constructive conversation?

 

Every once in a while I think you might miss my Idaho comments... but then, nope... 

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11 minutes ago, VandalPride97 said:

Thanks for pontificating. Once you jizz, can you come back so we can have a constructive conversation?

 

 

10 minutes ago, VandalPride97 said:

Complete bullshit.  You're just making shit up now, man.

Enlighten us man! Why does Idaho suck in facilities, fan support, recruiting, coaching, most metrics of a successful athletic program when they were the first kid on the block and had a head start in everything?

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18 minutes ago, VandalPride97 said:

OK, prove it.  Especially the part of the south feeling pity for the north and putting the flagship there.  Feel free to add some cites.

http://idahoptv.org/productions/specials/capitoloflight/article-05.cfm

Actually, I thought this was pretty common knowledge. I originally heard the story from an Idaho history professor. The north was threatening to leave the territory and join Washington. It was the bone thrown to the north to keep them in the territory. You can call it bullshet. I don't really care. I'm not here to convince you of anything. 

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4 hours ago, VandalPride97 said:

I think that was, ironically, for the benefit of BSU.

The myth that BSU (Boise State College or BSC at the time) had anything to do with UI not getting into the PCAA in 1973 is absurd. BSC has been in the state system only four years in 1973. It only had a few thousand students and a few buildings. It had no representation on the ISBOE (ISU had little more). BSC had only been D2 for a couple years and had no desire at the time to be D1 and no prospects to be D1 so they could not be left behind. BSC was already behind as UI was D1 while in the Big Sky Conference at that time. Not getting in the PCAA did not necessarily result in UI dropping down (it put them in a similar position to today) and UI did not immediately drop down a division. The rift was between a D1 PCAA faction at the UI led by the AD (and supported by president Hartung) versus a de-emphasize athletics (BSC) faction led by prominent faculty. The incident that tipped the scales was when UI's own comptroller accused the AD of inflating economic gains from the PCAA and declared the UI would never be likely to increase attendance enough to cover the costs of being in the PCAA and thus embracing the BSC and cutting costs was the only fiscally prudent move. This disclosure from a UI employee led to the deciding vote being cast in the ISBOE by an UI alumnus from Sandpoint. It was self inflicted. Tiny BSC couldn't have influenced the ISBOE in those days even if they had wanted to do so.

Another element to the vote that day was as soon as the vote to allow UI to join the PCAA failed, the same board members who introduced the PCAA motion made and seconded another motion to allow UI to become an independent D1 school and leave the BSC. That motion failed with the same margin and the board members voting as they did before:

No:
Janet Hay - Nampa
M.T. Deaton - Pocatello
D.F. Engelking - Boise (superindentant of Public Instruction)
J.P. Munson - Sandpoint (the deciding vote and UI alum)
Yes:
A.L. Alford - Lewiston
Ed Benoit - Twin Falls
Ken Thatcher - Twin Falls
Abstained:
John Swartley - Sandpoint (Board Chair)

Earlier that year the board had voted to go ahead with the design phase of the Kibbie Dome roof and had appropriated funds for that purpose. This was also integral to the ISBOE voting against both of the motions described above as it bolstered the argument that UI would not be able to increase attendance sufficiently to afford the PCAA and the UI was going to add significant debt to finish the dome. Board member Deaton was publicly upset at the UI for willfully exceeding the BSC scholarship limits.  UI had an AD (Ed Knecht) who had reportedly offended some board members who wanted him fired.  The UI Sports Publicity Director (Bob Maker) was described as "having a credibility gap with members of the media" in the LMT the day before the vote. Undoubtedly ISU and BSU preferred to keep their newly acquired in-state rival but neither had the power to effect a board that was UI dominated and generally UI friendly.  Factionalism within the UI and creative accounting (or the accusation thereof) along with already being committed to small stadium indoor football is what torpedoed the PCAA or Independent status for the Vandals in 1973.

In any case, UI staying in the Big Sky did not result in the Vandals dropping to the Small College (D2) division (which is the division at which the rest of the BSC schools were classified from the inception of the BSC in 1963). Idaho continued to play as a University Division/D1 school in a D2 league until the creation of the 1AA subdivision of football allowed the rest of the BSC to move to D1 (and D1AA football) in 1978. D1AA at the time had guaranteed network football games and television revenue sharing so it was not a tough sell. Oddly enough, UI was in the Small College Division (D2) in the first year of the NCAA (1937) and in 1967 through 1968 (consistent with their SC/D2 Big Sky peers). The Vandals played as a D1 school in the D2 Big Sky from 1965-1966 (despite being a charter member of the Big Sky, UI did not play football in the conference until 1965) and then from 1969-1977. Maybe a third time... ?

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