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NMpackalum

Got a 30 percent premium increase on health insurance.

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13 minutes ago, Akkula said:

http://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/obamacare-non-profit-hospital-taxes/

Well, I knew we would find who is walking away with all of the money with these medical costs rising.  The insurance companies have to spend X% of premiums on medical care and the hospitals are now sucking up all the excess profits now that they have someone to pay for the charity care.  Capitalism at work, I guess!

When someone writes a blank check to a provider you get huge executive compensation and over building of hospital facilities.  This seems like the same situation with student loans and government guaranteed mortgages causing prices to go out of control.  

@mugtang what do you think you could charge for a tax return if the government or a third party paid on behalf of your clients and your clients never objected over price?

I'd charge a couple thousand dollars for a basic return if I could.  Obviously the market currently wouldn't support that but if the government was paying on benalf of somebody and would pay within reason, I would jack up my prices to a point of a red flag not being raised.  

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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4 minutes ago, mugtang said:

I'd charge a couple thousand dollars for a basic return if I could.  Obviously the market currently wouldn't support that but if the government was paying on benalf of somebody and would pay within reason, I would jack up my prices to a point of a red flag not being raised.  

..and every time you could save a few bucks or take the "more conservative" approach you would do the latter...as the client wouldn't really check you...and you could just blame the insurance company/government for not doing the best possible thing for the client's taxes and asking you to "cut corners" on something that could potentially put them in jail if you didn't do the more expensive interpretation of the law.

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Just now, Akkula said:

..and every time you could save a few bucks or take the "more conservative" approach you would do the latter...as the client wouldn't really check you...and you could just blame the insurance company/government for not doing the best possible thing for the client's taxes and asking you to "cut corners" on something that could potentially put them in jail.  

Well no, because I have a sense of ethics.  I wouldn't take any sort of position that would put my clients at unnecessary risk. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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4 minutes ago, mugtang said:

Well no, because I have a sense of ethics.  I wouldn't take any sort of position that would put my clients at unnecessary risk. 

Yes, but there are situations that are not black and white and you have to use professional judgement to know if it it is "overkill" to take the more expensive route and you have to justify your recommendation to the client.  Medical professionals don't seem to have to answer the "how much does it cost and why are you recommending this over the cheaper alternative" as much as other professionals.  How many ways can an engineer grade a lot for water drainage and how much fat could they build in if someone else was paying?

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6 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Yes, but there are situations that are not black and white and you have to use professional judgement to know if it it is "overkill" to take the more expensive route and you have to justify your recommendation to the client.  Medical professionals don't seem to have to answer the "how much does it cost and why are you recommending this over the cheaper alternative" as much as other professionals.  How many ways can an engineer grade a lot for water drainage and how much fat could they build in if someone else was paying?

I see what you're getting at. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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37 minutes ago, Akkula said:

http://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/obamacare-non-profit-hospital-taxes/

Well, I knew we would find who is walking away with all of the money with these medical costs rising.  The insurance companies have to spend X% of premiums on medical care and the hospitals are now sucking up all the excess profits now that they have someone to pay for the charity care.  Government intervention in the market at work, I guess!

When someone writes a blank check to a provider you get huge executive compensation and over building of hospital facilities.  This seems like the same situation with student loans and government guaranteed mortgages causing prices to go out of control.  

@mugtang what do you think you could charge for a tax return if the government or a third party paid on behalf of your clients and your clients never objected over price?

FIFY

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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1 hour ago, Akkula said:

http://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/obamacare-non-profit-hospital-taxes/

Well, I knew we would find who is walking away with all of the money with these medical costs rising.  The insurance companies have to spend X% of premiums on medical care and the hospitals are now sucking up all the excess profits now that they have someone to pay for the charity care.  Capitalism at work, I guess!

When someone writes a blank check to a provider you get huge executive compensation and over building of hospital facilities.  This seems like the same situation with student loans and government guaranteed mortgages causing prices to go out of control.  

@mugtang what do you think you could charge for a tax return if the government or a third party paid on behalf of your clients and your clients never objected over price?

There was another thread somewhere about lazy reporting. They infer that hospitals are getting rich based on data gleaned from the 6 largest University hospitals including total revenues and charitable care. Our local hospital which is a sole community hospital has had a roughly 20 million dollar deficit year over year with the final implementation of the ACA despite higher utilization and record volume. Charitable car reporting is non specific and is manipulated on annual reports.. For instance, our hospital classifies the losses on the hospital owned physician practices under charitable care because they are recruiting for underserved specialties. Gallup's hospital is teetering on financial solvency with Medicaid penalties on charitable care despite more than 90 percent of their patients being Medicaid which to me is charity care in itself. You yourself are making huge assumptions about executive compensation. There is also processes through the State about need for expansions etc..

 

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I am a broken record here, but no health plan put forth by the Dems and Repubs has yet addressed the problem that 75-80% percent of our spending comes from spending related to preventable lifestyle diseases. Type 2 diabetes, Heart Disease, and their side effects. That's harder to address but is the bulk of the problem. Free up a few hundred billion and we'd have money to pay for the poor to get great coverage. We're fixing 20% of the problem and giving the finger to the other 80%. Until the bigger problem gets addressed, costs will continue to spiral out of control as we as a country get less and less healthy. 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. 

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19 minutes ago, madmartigan said:

I am a broken record here, but no health plan put forth by the Dems and Repubs has yet addressed the problem that 75-80% percent of our spending comes from spending related to preventable lifestyle diseases. Type 2 diabetes, Heart Disease, and their side effects. That's harder to address but is the bulk of the problem. Free up a few hundred billion and we'd have money to pay for the poor to get great coverage. We're fixing 20% of the problem and giving the finger to the other 80%. Until the bigger problem gets addressed, costs will continue to spiral out of control as we as a country get less and less healthy. 

What do you propose to do about that 80%? I think the reason it isn't being addressed is because the cure is worse than the disease.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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9 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

What do you propose to do about that 80%? I think the reason it isn't being addressed is because the cure is worse than the disease.

It's a big complicated problem. I wish I were smart enough to perscribe the exact solution, but it has so many moving parts I'd be hard pressed with my tiny brain. Some good first steps:

-Disallow any food company from giving money to the AMA, AHA, or any other organization that makes government sanctioned health claims. Also, disallow them from funding any studies on how their products influence health 

-Sugar tax on fountain drinks- tobacco tax (or the education on it) has worked wonders on both the amount of smokers, and the amount of disease we have from tobacoo. I'm mostly a free-market guy, but this intervention could really help. 

- Good health (low body fat, good resting heart rate, etc) should be rewarded with decreased premiums

-Make the "pick ten team grey" participants pick more quickly

Anyway, i'm sure there are gaping holes in these measures, but we, as a country have solved big and ugly problems before. We need to dig down and do this healthcare one right. 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. 

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2 minutes ago, madmartigan said:

It's a big complicated problem. I wish I were smart enough to perscribe the exact solution, but it has so many moving parts I'd be hard pressed with my tiny brain. Some good first steps:

-Disallow any food company from giving money to the AMA, AHA, or any other organization that makes government sanctioned health claims. Also, disallow them from funding any studies on how their products influence health 

-Sugar tax on fountain drinks- tobacco tax (or the education on it) has worked wonders on both the amount of smokers, and the amount of disease we have from tobacoo. I'm mostly a free-market guy, but this intervention could really help. 

- Good health (low body fat, good resting heart rate, etc) should be rewarded with decreased premiums

Anyway, i'm sure there are gaping holes in that logic, but we, as a country have solved big and ugly problems before. We need to dig down and do this healthcare one right. 

Also, invest in education. A strong, well funded education system lowers both crime and healthcare costs.

Alternatively: Kick Mississippi out of the Union. 

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Just now, I am Ram said:

Also, invest in education. A strong, well funded education system lowers both crime and healthcare costs.

Alternatively: Kick Mississippi out of the Union. 

Education reform is another topic. I don't generally agree that dumping more money into something inherently makes it better (speaking of healthcare). I do think we are still teaching kids like we live in the industrial age, and that can be improved a lot. We could also use some more money in our educational system. 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. 

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On 7/6/2017 at 10:37 AM, sean327 said:

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the Health Insurance Industry, but it seems to me that if you allowed companies to sell their product across state lines prices would go down due to competition. So why in the hell is this ignored by Congress?

It is unconstitutional for the federal government to set state rules.  Each state gets to regulate its own market.   Now you would think states would think ahead and set rules like their neighbors so policies could be sold across state lines like car insurance.

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2 minutes ago, madmartigan said:

Education reform is another topic. I don't generally agree that dumping more money into something inherently makes it better (speaking of healthcare). I do think we are still teaching kids like we live in the industrial age, and that can be improved a lot. We could also use some more money in our educational system. 

Our GDP percentage is good - greater than most other OECD countries. But the money is misspent - we expect schools to do too many things they are not meant to do, from social work to soup kitchen to police work. That needs to stop. The money needs to go directly to teaching and learning. I am not saying we should give extra support to low income students, but this has to be an entirely separate service with separate funding.

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16 minutes ago, madmartigan said:

It's a big complicated problem. I wish I were smart enough to perscribe the exact solution, but it has so many moving parts I'd be hard pressed with my tiny brain. Some good first steps:

-Disallow any food company from giving money to the AMA, AHA, or any other organization that makes government sanctioned health claims. Also, disallow them from funding any studies on how their products influence health 

-Sugar tax on fountain drinks- tobacco tax (or the education on it) has worked wonders on both the amount of smokers, and the amount of disease we have from tobacoo. I'm mostly a free-market guy, but this intervention could really help. 

- Good health (low body fat, good resting heart rate, etc) should be rewarded with decreased premiums

-Make the "pick ten team grey" participants pick more quickly 

Anyway, i'm sure there are gaping holes in these measures, but we, as a country have solved big and ugly problems before. We need to dig down and do this healthcare one right. 

Boy, that escalated. Do you see how quickly good intentions turn Orwellian.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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1 hour ago, madmartigan said:

I am a broken record here, but no health plan put forth by the Dems and Repubs has yet addressed the problem that 75-80% percent of our spending comes from spending related to preventable lifestyle diseases. Type 2 diabetes, Heart Disease, and their side effects. That's harder to address but is the bulk of the problem. Free up a few hundred billion and we'd have money to pay for the poor to get great coverage. We're fixing 20% of the problem and giving the finger to the other 80%. Until the bigger problem gets addressed, costs will continue to spiral out of control as we as a country get less and less healthy. 

Actually a few hundred billion is what it would take to cover California only. You're absolutely right about lifestyle choices costing us vast majority of the costs. Now throw in the opioid epidemic that everyone is talking about which also is another lifestyle disease. What can we do about it though, without becoming an authoritarian society? We can't even have an honest discussion about healthcare. You have Democrats talking about huge Medicaid cuts when in reality it's an increase of $150 billion over 10 years. You have Chuck Schumer calling out the Republicans for only providing $4.5 billion per year for narcotic treatment which is more than cardiovascular research and nearly the same for total cancer research. We aren't even fixing any problems. There is no data that the Medicaid expansion has improved outcomes for those recipients. We just keep spending money because it's easier to throw money at something instead of making hard decisions.

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1 hour ago, I am Ram said:

Also, invest in education. A strong, well funded education system lowers both crime and healthcare costs.

Alternatively: Kick Mississippi out of the Union. 

Would raise the average IQ of the country by a few points.

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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On 7/6/2017 at 10:45 AM, Akkula said:

We have to get in control of these outrageous charges that healthcare providers charge or this will never change. 

From what I understand Obamacare limits the amount of what an insurance company can increase their prices. Premium Increases must be approved and be justified by an increase in costs. Insurance Companies are doing what they have to do to stay afloat financially. They are forced to take on very costly sick customers, and they are forcing out there low cost healthy customers who would just rather pay the fine on their tax return because it is cheaper than health insurance premiums. AKA as a death sprial 

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2 hours ago, madmartigan said:

I am a broken record here, but no health plan put forth by the Dems and Repubs has yet addressed the problem that 75-80% percent of our spending comes from spending related to preventable lifestyle diseases. Type 2 diabetes, Heart Disease, and their side effects. That's harder to address but is the bulk of the problem. Free up a few hundred billion and we'd have money to pay for the poor to get great coverage. We're fixing 20% of the problem and giving the finger to the other 80%. Until the bigger problem gets addressed, costs will continue to spiral out of control as we as a country get less and less healthy. 

 White.  Obese. With a fat ass wife and 2 or 3 fat ass kids in birkenstocks whose diet consists of wendys, cracker barrel and chilis on the big big nights out.  

So lets blame the illegals and lazy coons for my higher healthcare costs!  

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