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OT: Gordon Hayward Leaving Utah for Boston

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24 minutes ago, TK_05 said:

 

they way they handled his first extension was pretty small market and worthy of a "bit of the blame"

 

really there's no blame here. the west is stacked, utah didn't look like a contender in his eyes and he went east

 

it hurts but this is sports. they're paid to play athletes and i think they deserve the right to guide their own destinies at some point

I can agree with that, however, I didn't even think he was worth a max deal at that time.  I get Utah has to overpay, but you can get 15/5/5 from guys in the NBA for less than a max deal.  I feel like he kind of grew in to it, but even if they had offered him a max deal at that time, it's four years with a player option, so we'd just be doing this again next year.

The West is stacked, so I get that aspect of choosing an easier path.  I'd think a true competitor would take that as a challenge, but whatever.

I don't think his wife likes it here, so sure, leave if you want.  

It's not emotional to me, I think he's a good player, but he's not a great or special player.  My son was upset about it, which is why I have been thinking about it more than I normally would.

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54 minutes ago, FalesGoesB4Carr said:

Easy to grow when your cult encourages you to have 20 kids with 10 different women. 

Mormons don't practice polygamy. But you already knew that. 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. 

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Jazz fans have a persecution complex.  Hayward spent 7 years here, and had exactly one playoff series win, who could blame him for moving on.  Lets be honest, in NBA success, Boston is on one end of the spectrum and Utah is on the other.  Additionally Hayward's marketability is ten fold what it would be in Utah.

I love living in Utah, but it clearly isn't for everyone, especially a kid from the Midwest.  Jazz tried to sign George Hill and he opted to sign with Sacramento instead.  That should tell you where Utah is on the NBA pecking order.  Jazz fans should just feel fortunate that this franchise hasn't relocated to Seattle.

 

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1 hour ago, NevadaFan said:

No it is. Nether market is worth two chits although I agree Sac is an abomination from the ground up. The new Golden 1 Center is pretty though. 

Sacramento is slowly getting better. I trust Vlade, he's made some hiccups but many analysts think we had the best draft. For the first time in awhile I'm really excited about our young core and think we have a bright future. 

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1 hour ago, Jack Bauer said:

I can agree with that, however, I didn't even think he was worth a max deal at that time.  I get Utah has to overpay, but you can get 15/5/5 from guys in the NBA for less than a max deal.  I feel like he kind of grew in to it, but even if they had offered him a max deal at that time, it's four years with a player option, so we'd just be doing this again next year.

The West is stacked, so I get that aspect of choosing an easier path.  I'd think a true competitor would take that as a challenge, but whatever.

I don't think his wife likes it here, so sure, leave if you want.  

It's not emotional to me, I think he's a good player, but he's not a great or special player.  My son was upset about it, which is why I have been thinking about it more than I normally would.

 

it definitely backfired for utah. he wasn't the player after 13-14 that he is today but they haggled over like 1m a year which obviously came back to bite them a bit when he broke out into the all-star he is now

 

and yes, it's as much a family decision as it is gordon's. if his wife doesn't like utah than good luck. same shit with carmelo and denver

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19 hours ago, Del Scorcho said:

Jazz fans have a persecution complex.  Hayward spent 7 years here, and had exactly one playoff series win, who could blame him for moving on.  Lets be honest, in NBA success, Boston is on one end of the spectrum and Utah is on the other.  Additionally Hayward's marketability is ten fold what it would be in Utah.

I love living in Utah, but it clearly isn't for everyone, especially a kid from the Midwest.  Jazz tried to sign George Hill and he opted to sign with Sacramento instead.  That should tell you where Utah is on the NBA pecking order.  Jazz fans should just feel fortunate that this franchise hasn't relocated to Seattle.

 

LOL, the Jazz traded for Ricky Rubio and told Hill and his sore toe to keep it moving.  Part of the reason they have one playoff win in hte last seven years is because they were waiting for dorky Hayward to develop.

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4 hours ago, Jack Bauer said:

Last time they were together, Gordon Hayward didn't have Lebron James standing in front of him.  He only played for Stevens for a few years.  He's played for Snyder for longer than he played for Stevens.

Here's the deal with Hayward.  He's a fine player that occasionally will disappear in a big moment, but he's not the elite of the elite in the NBA.  He's probably the 25th best player in the NBA right now, and those guys don't win you a title without some significant help.  Golden State has 4 guys on their team that are better players than Hayward.  The Rockets have two.  OKC has 2.  Cleveland has 2 or 3.  Unless those rookies they have are total studs, Boston isn't going anywhere soon.

Let's be honest though. This was a huge blow to the Jazz. They just went from competing in the West and an annual playoff team to a team that will struggle to make the playoffs. This one hurts because this was the best team Utah had in a more than a decade and their leading scoring bolts. Especially after all the time Utah spent to develop him, I can see why Jazz fans are pissed about this. Finding guys like Karl Malone or John Stockton who are willing to play in Utah their entire career may never happen again. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, BroncoOrange said:

Let's be honest though. This was a huge blow to the Jazz. They just went from competing in the West and an annual playoff team to a team that will struggle to make the playoffs. This one hurts because this was the best team Utah had in a more than a decade and their leading scoring bolts. Especially after all the time Utah spent to develop him, I can see why Jazz fans are pissed about this. Finding guys like Karl Malone or John Stockton who are willing to play in Utah their entire career may never happen again. 

I don't disagree.  The Jazz have to overpay for guys sometimes.  I just think it's funny that Utah is trying to pay a max deal to Gordon Hayward while GS is paying a similar deal to Steph Curry and Cleveland to Lebron, and he's not even close to as good as those guys.    

I think Utah still has a pretty deep team, and I feel they have a really good front office overall.  The Jazz have arguably the best center in the NBA, and he's a guy you can build around.  I'd rather lose Hayward than Gobert.

That said, until they have an actual hard cap in the NBA, the most talented front office won't necessarily field the best team.  Part of the reason Utah wasn't great is because they were waiting for him to develop, and then he leaves when we've finally got a finished product on our hands.

And let's get real.  Nobody is really "competing" in the West right now.  The Warriors are a juggernaut and I think they'll just keep paying those guys despite the luxury tax.  Everyone is just playing for 2nd place right now.  

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32 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

I don't disagree.  The Jazz have to overpay for guys sometimes.  I just think it's funny that Utah is trying to pay a max deal to Gordon Hayward while GS is paying a similar deal to Steph Curry and Cleveland to Lebron, and he's not even close to as good as those guys.    

I think Utah still has a pretty deep team, and I feel they have a really good front office overall.  The Jazz have arguably the best center in the NBA, and he's a guy you can build around.  I'd rather lose Hayward than Gobert.

That said, until they have an actual hard cap in the NBA, the most talented front office won't necessarily field the best team.  Part of the reason Utah wasn't great is because they were waiting for him to develop, and then he leaves when we've finally got a finished product on our hands.

And let's get real.  Nobody is really "competing" in the West right now.  The Warriors are a juggernaut and I think they'll just keep paying those guys despite the luxury tax.  Everyone is just playing for 2nd place right now.  

Playing for second is a whole lot better for fan morale and business then playing for 8th place in the playoff race every year. Which I think is what just happened now that Hayward is gone. Almost reminds you of the G5 teams in football. As soon as they get good their head coach bolts for a better gig. Kind of hard to continually compete each year when that happens. 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, BroncoOrange said:

Playing for second is a whole lot better for fan morale and business then playing for 8th place in the playoff race every year. Which I think is what just happened now that Hayward is gone. Almost reminds you of the G5 teams in football. As soon as they get good their head coach bolts for a better gig. Kind of hard to continually compete each year when that happens. 

They had a lockout a few years back, and the small market teams really should have held out for some concessions to even the playing field a bit more.

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It's Rodney Hood Time, in Utah.  That kid has the potential to be better than Hayward. He has already shown flashes of what he can do.  Remember that 30 point half on Kobe and the Lakers.  IMO I like his ability and atheism better than Hayward.  It's his time to shine!

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6 hours ago, Jack Bauer said:

Last time they were together, Gordon Hayward didn't have Lebron James standing in front of him.  He only played for Stevens for a few years.  He's played for Snyder for longer than he played for Stevens.

Here's the deal with Hayward.  He's a fine player that occasionally will disappear in a big moment, but he's not the elite of the elite in the NBA.  He's probably the 25th best player in the NBA right now, and those guys don't win you a title without some significant help.  Golden State has 4 guys on their team that are better players than Hayward.  The Rockets have two.  OKC has 2.  Cleveland has 2 or 3.  Unless those rookies they have are total studs, Boston isn't going anywhere soon.

If he stays in Utah he gets beat first round of the playoffs. If the Jazz even make it. All the superstars have moved to the west. All the playoff teams have bettered themselves except for the Clippers. 

Not saying Boston is a better team than the Jazz, but the road to the championship is a lot easier when the only team in your way is Cleveland.  He made the right move if he wants an outside shot at a title.

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Either way Heyward will have to contend with a juggernaut, wether it's GS or Cleveland. Cleveland will likely fall off first either from Lebron declining or leaving (I don't think he will, but it's a possibility), so going with the Celtics was probably the better move In terms of a path to the finals.

I was hoping he would stay though; I thought Utah had a nice young core and with Rubio and Heyward I was curious to see how good they would be. I think he downgraded his supporting cast by moving to Boston, but will win more games then he would have had he stayed. 

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14 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Either way Heyward will have to contend with a juggernaut, wether it's GS or Cleveland. Cleveland will likely fall off first either from Lebron declining or leaving (I don't think he will, but it's a possibility), so going with the Celtics was probably the better move In terms of a path to the finals.

I was hoping he would stay though; I thought Utah had a nice young core and with Rubio and Heyward I was curious to see how good they would be. I think he downgraded his supporting cast by moving to Boston, but will win more games then he would have had he stayed. 

Utah has a nicer group of players than Boston does, and a better team on paper, but the West is a lot tougher.  For all the mystique of Boston and their winning ways, they have one title in thirty years.  They like to chest pound about all their titles, but honestly who cares what Bill Russell did fifty five years ago. 

Hayward has wanted to leave for a long time.  One of the hoopscritic guys was on the radio here this morning and said he asked to be traded a year ago to Boston.  If that is truly the case, then the Jazz were stupid to not move him for something this year.  You don't sit on your asset that you could lose for nothing and try to change their mind if their mind is made up.  If he really was going to Boston, then try to get something out of Boston, and if not, move him to someone else.

The Jazz have always been stupid like this.

 

9 hours ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

Time to become salt tank city amiright 

The Jazz are now in purgatory.  They aren't bad enough to get a good pick, but probably aren't good enough to win a playoff series.  That's the worst place to be in the NBA.

 

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17 hours ago, Jack Bauer said:

They had a lockout a few years back, and the small market teams really should have held out for some concessions to even the playing field a bit more.

Wouldn't that be like the MWC holding out for a better offer? I fail to see what leverage a market like SLC has in the grand scheme of the NBA.

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5 minutes ago, NevadaFan said:

Wouldn't that be like the MWC holding out for a better offer? I fail to see what leverage a market like SLC has in the grand scheme of the NBA.

You need all the teams to make an agreement to end a lockout.   Each owner is on equal footing with each other, even if their respective markets are not.

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