Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

mugtang

Health Care Bill

Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

Ice Cube once rapped, "Life ain't nothin' but bitches and money." Sounds like the two of you would get along.

Except as Easy-E points out later, "So what about the bitch who got shot? +++++ her. You think I give a damn about a bitch? I ain't a sucker." So even the bitches don't really matter. As Chuck Klosterman said about this ethos, this is weapons grade nihilism.

What you misunderstand about the point I'm making is that it's not about money. It's about freedom. Which, I concede, can also be viewed as selfish. Though I would argue a slightly less repugnant form of selfishness, even though it amounts to the same thing.

Quote

Look, this is going nowhere. We aren't going to convince each other of anything. I see where you're coming from, I just think it's selfish. You see where I'm coming from, you just think it's misguided. Maybe we're both right.

I don't think you're misguided, I think you're selfish. Be that as it may, neither of us is right. There is no right. Healthcare is always constrained by the tension between affordability, accessibility, and quality. We favor different aspects of the triangle.

What I object to is the rhetoric you use to gloss over an ugly, yet necessary, system which relies on violence to achieve its goals, however noble they might be. And I'm certain you'd object were those means used in another situation for goals you don't agree with.

Were we having the same conversation, and not glossing over the wicked means to justify the noble ends, I am not beyond compromise. But such a compromise must recognize there are limits to the intended harm and unintended harm incurred. There is a limit to how much I am willing to agree to steal and give to those who need, and it should be viewed as a gift, not an entitlement. One that is not guaranteed in perpetuity. People should be expected to take care of themselves. And when they come to expect it of themselves, they almost always deliver.

Quote

I'll just point out that my employer (almost entirely funded by taxpayers, most of whom, yes, will never set foot on a community college campus, and even if they do, won't qualify for financial aid and will have to pay full tuition ($46/unit (the horror!)), and some of whom probably think all 112 campuses should be demolished and replaced with parking lots) covers 90% of my health insurance. I only pay like $80/month and it just comes out of my check. I don't even notice it. I needed meds recently and only paid $5 out of pocket. The rest was a free f*ckin ride courtesy of upper-middle-class Californians (and myself since I paid a significant amount in state taxes last year). I am a drain on the precious system. I bet I've indirectly killed a bunch of rich people with my selfishness.

 

You've directly benefitted from a bunch of rich people realizing they'd rather give up what is theirs than be thrown in a cage or die in the resistance to that outcome. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/22/2017 at 9:44 AM, Jack Bauer said:

Just stop.  Obamacare was designed to fail from the get go.  They knew it was never going to work long term and that companies would withdraw from the exchanges.  If they wanted it to work, the fine would have been enough to be punitive and people would have bought the plans instead of pay a tiny fine, and then the insurances wouldn't have been withdrawing from the exchanges at such high rates and taking huge losses.

Exactly right. It was well known that the insurance companies and co-ops were to be subsidized for 3 years after implementation and the subsidies were to be withdrawn. Medicaid expansion subsidies also as well were to be withdrawn which is why some Republican governors decided not to do the expansion knowing the hole it would put them in after 3 years. Democratic talking point like 23 million kicked off insurance or 17 intelligence agencies investigated Russia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

It's always funny to watch the welfare whores start to squirm when the free cheese looks like it's about to end. 

Welfare? +++++ you man. You don't have a clue. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

Yes. Now go ahead with your lecture about how all public services are welfare. 

Well, that's what your entire state is basically based on.  I don't have to lecture you about it.  It's common knowledge.  If you could just shed the shackles of the United State government and run everything on your own.  Then it would all be ok.  The wacky laws and stupidity there wouldn't run rampant.  It's the rest of the country holding you guys back.  Like SDSU and the MWC

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't care which political party's health bill gets signed.  I just want the politicians to be forced to be on the same coverage they're signing for us instead of that gravy health care they've always had.  We'd have one hell of a health care plan if that was the case.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Jack Bauer said:

Well, that's what your entire state is basically based on.  I don't have to lecture you about it.  It's common knowledge.  If you could just shed the shackles of the United State government and run everything on your own.  Then it would all be ok.  The wacky laws and stupidity there wouldn't run rampant.  It's the rest of the country holding you guys back.  Like SDSU and the MWC

Let he who doesn't live in Utah cast the first stone about wacky laws.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, NVGiant said:

Let he who doesn't live in Utah cast the first stone about wacky laws.

no kidding.  Let alone some pure stupidity that occurs in Utah

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, NVGiant said:

Let he who doesn't live in Utah cast the first stone about wacky laws.

 

1 hour ago, Billings said:

no kidding.  Let alone some pure stupidity that occurs in Utah

 Utah has stupid laws about drinking.  They don't have stupid laws that completely handcuff the populace from being able to do business and run their social programs.

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jack Bauer said:

 

 Utah has stupid laws about drinking.  They don't have stupid laws that completely handcuff the populace from being able to do business and run their social programs.

Sort of depends on the viewpoint and a matter of perspective don't ya think

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Billings said:

Sort of depends on the viewpoint and a matter of perspective don't ya think

Not really.  If you tie your hands with stupid laws, and then complain when businesses leave your state, and you have budgetary shortfalls, that's on you.  California is a very business unfriendly place.  If California were it's own state, they'd be bankrupt within a decade.

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jack Bauer said:

 

 Utah has stupid laws about drinking.  They don't have stupid laws that completely handcuff the populace from being able to do business and run their social programs.

Yeah, unless your business has something to do with brewing, bartending, restaurant-owning, etc. California also doesn't lose giant outdoor industry conventions because of state government policies. And California won't send my wife to jail if she has one glass of wine with dinner and then drives home.

You live in a well-cloaked theocracy. That's fine if it fits your lifestyle, but let's not go wagging fingers at others when your own state is just as egregious, only with a different flavor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Yeah, unless your business has something to do with brewing, bartending, restaurant-owning, etc. California also doesn't lose giant outdoor industry conventions because of state government policies. And California won't send my wife to jail if she has one glass of wine with dinner and then drives home.

You live in a well-cloaked theocracy. That's fine if it fits your lifestyle, but let's not go wagging fingers at others when your own state is just as egregious, only with a different flavor.

The populace here will not be bullied by an outdoor convention.  The restaurant industry does fine here.  The only way your wife will be sent to jail after one drink is if she's a complete lightweight for alcohol. 

California is a theocracy to a different kind of religion, not one you necessarily attend on Sunday's, but it's a theocracy nonetheless.

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

The populace here will not be bullied by an outdoor convention.  The restaurant industry does fine here.  The only way your wife will be sent to jail after one drink is if she's a complete lightweight for alcohol. 

California is a theocracy to a different kind of religion, not one you necessarily attend on Sunday's, but it's a theocracy nonetheless.

No, California is not a theocracy. That might sound good, but it doesn't make it so. And I guess Californians won't be bullied by business interests, either. Yay!

Utah government is just as shitty. You just seem to agree with them more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, NVGiant said:

No, California is not a theocracy. That might sound good, but it doesn't make it so. And I guess Californians won't be bullied by business interests, either. Yay!

Utah government is just as shitty. You just seem agree with them more.

Sure it is.  Their religion is just the environment and welfare.  Those are the things they worship, at the expense of a large portion of their populace.

You folks are funny, trying to paint me as some mindless schlub that just goes along with all the nonsense laws they have around here.  I don't drink, so drinking laws don't affect me.  I have friends that do, and they are unhappy about them.  That doesn't mean I don't think the drinking laws here are silly.

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

Sure it is.  Their religion is just the environment and welfare.  Those are the things they worship, at the expense of a large portion of their populace.

You folks are funny, trying to paint me as some mindless schlub that just goes along with all the nonsense laws they have around here.  I don't drink, so drinking laws don't affect me.  I have friends that do, and they are unhappy about them.  That doesn't mean I don't think the drinking laws here are silly.

Not a religion under any definition. But if it makes you feel better, I say go for it.

And you mean, I'm doing to you exactly what you did to SJSUMFA? Also, you don't own a business in California, so those laws don't affect you either. Why call out California, and not the lunacy your own state produces?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, aztech said:

I don't care which political party's health bill gets signed.  I just want the politicians to be forced to be on the same coverage they're signing for us instead of that gravy health care they've always had.  We'd have one hell of a health care plan if that was the case.    

I've listened to many of my co-workers bitch about Obamacare and the dread of the "coming single payer" bogie man. But every flipping one of them is retired military and gets their health insurance through Tri-Care for Life with many have supplemental Insurance through Medicare if they are over 65. I asked them

"Do you like your insurance?"

Answer is universally, "Oh yeah, love it!"

"When was the last time you had to pay an insurance premium or a co-pay?"

Answer: CRICKETS

"When was the last time a doctor's office told you they didn't take your insurance?"

Answer: CRICKETS

I have decent insurance through my employer. They are generous enough to pay 100% of the premium. Though I've been told most of my raises for the last 10 years have been eaten up by the cost of my insurance premium. But my co-pay has continued to rise, as has the deductible. If I go see a specialist, I'm responsible for 80% of the bill until I meet my $4,000 deductible. Those costs rise faster than inflation or my pay check every year. Oh, and because our company shops around for insurance every year, I almost always have to switch primary care physicians every year because they aren't in network. The yearly ritual of calling around to different medical groups to find out whether they are A. In the new network and/or B. Accepting new patients with that insurance. Getting to know a new doctor and handing him my 4 inch thick medical records that I'm doubtful he'll ever do more than browse.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I really don't know what the solution is, but something has to give and there are a lot of people making decisions for us that aren't going to see the effects of the plan they are implementing.

The whole system needs a giant reset. 

I want to make it clear, I'm not advocating for Single Payer, I truly don't know that that is the solution, beyond letting some individual states give it a try. I'm just irritated by the hypocrisy of elected officials putting forward plans that they, themselves are exempt from and retired military guys bitching about "IMA GERD SINGLE PAYER SOCIALISM" while they are literally singing the praises of the Single Payer system they get their health insurance from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, NVGiant said:

Not a religion under any definition. But if it makes you feel better, I say go for it.

And you mean, I'm doing to you exactly what you did to SJSUMFA? Also, you don't own a business in California, so those laws don't affect you either. Why call out California, and not the lunacy your own state produces?

Because California and the people there are stupid if they think they can do better on their own than with the United States. 

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...