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RAMification

how many New Year Bowls did BYU miss... by leaving the MWC & going Indy

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Been thinking about the "actual shake-out" from all the re-alignments made over the past 2 decades involving the MWC.  

#1) We know the end-result of the MWC splitting from the WAC ... good for the MWC, not good for the WAC.  

#2) We know the end-result of UU leaving the MWC, and TCU  .... bad for the MWC as it weakened our SOS majorly, great for UU & TCU.  

#3) And we know the end-result of BYU leaving to go Indy ... bad news for MWC SOS & prestige, a desperate face-saving move that was necessary for BYU.

#4) then came the outright BYU-WAC double-dealing shock... made the MWC move quickly to become STRONGER as a Conference, with more eggs placed in more baskets.

But I would still like to know the What-if's... like:

a) What if the MWC had not done the "great compromise" w/ Boise... would BSU- SDSU have still bolted to the AAC?  I honestly do not know how it would've worked out for the MWC or for BSU-SDSU.  My guesstimate is it would've been a Lose-Lose.  

b ) What if BYU had never Double-Dealt w/ the WAC behind the MWC's back... would the MWC have decimated the WAC anyway (adding 5 teams) ?  Or would the MWC have stopped at adding BSU, or just BSU +2 teams?   I do forget many of the details so feel free to correct me.

c) What if BYU had chosen to stay in the MWC -- How many NY Day Bowls would BYU have made, had it stayed in the MWC?  Would BYU have ever gotten 12 W's  (or maybe 11 W's)  and been invited while playing only 2 or 3 P5 teams annually (as OOC games early in the year) vs. 5 or 6  -- then facing the MWC schedule (including UHa or Fresno or USU) -- then facing Boise annually (either in-Conference play or in the CCG)?   This is anyone's guess... but IMHO that 2011 team, or one of Tysom Hill's teams under Bronco would have made at least 1 (maybe 2) trip to a NY Bowl game.   What's that worth to a BYU... about $5M/year in Rev $$$'s + about $10M more in Prestige, Fan-base motivation & possibly even a P5 invite?   

So much wondering out loud... Who knows ... your thoughts??

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2 minutes ago, East Coast Aztec said:

Boise and SDSU to the AAC would have been okay for those two and terrible for MWC

BYU would have gone to zero NY6 games

Perception would be no less than it is now

Traveling 2,000 miles per away game would have been okay? I think they both would have regretted it personally. 

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Guest #1Stunner

First, BYU will win 6 MWC games this season.  No other MWC school will win more MWC games than BYU in 2017.

 

Second, here is the income BYU has gained from going Indy:

2015 Reporting Year:

Revenues:  $62,563,289

Expenses:  $54,429,683

Net:  $8,133,596

2009 Reporting Year - Last Full Year in the MWC:

Revenues:  $40,999,978

Expenses:  $35,450,765

Net:  $5,549,214

 

Third, Eastern Idaho always has been, and always will be BYU property.   Rexburg Idaho is the host city of the largest enrollment University in the State of Idaho.

 

Fourth, I'm calling on CSU to immediately enter into a football and basketball scheduling deal with BYU.

 

Fifth, I'm calling on Hawaii to immediately put down the shackles of travel subsidies, and to follow BYU in Independence.  The MWC is holding Hawaii back.

 

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3 minutes ago, SLCPoke said:

Traveling 2,000 miles per away game would have been okay? I think they both would have regretted it personally. 

Until Fresno and SJ were here, we were doing a full day of travel anyways. :shrug: 

 

If the payout would have matched the travel costs, it would be negligible.  Olympic sports would have been cheaper for SDSU as well, so playing same or better teams in football, and playing in another one-bid league for basketball?  It would have been okay.  Not great, but okay.

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7 minutes ago, SLCPoke said:

Traveling 2,000 miles per away game would have been okay? I think they both would have regretted it personally. 

When wyo and other front range fans say this it shows how out of touch they are on the distance/travel issue for a school like SDSU.

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, SLCPoke said:

Traveling 2,000 miles per away game would have been okay? I think they both would have regretted it personally. 

 

18 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

When wyo and other front range fans say this it shows how out of touch they are on the distance/travel issue for a school like SDSU.

Assuming that SDSU had joined the AAC, wouldn't their travel costs have greatly improved?

SDSU would have been in a California league (Big West) for basketball and other sports.   And only had 4 "long travel" football games per year in the AAC.  

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Just now, RAMification said:

Been thinking about the "actual shake-out" from all the re-alignments made over the past 2 decades involving the MWC.  

#1) We know the end-result of the MWC splitting from the WAC ... good for the MWC, not good for the WAC.  

#2) We know the end-result of UU leaving the MWC, and TCU  .... bad for the MWC as it weakened our SOS majorly, great for UU & TCU.  

#3) And we know the end-result of BYU leaving to go Indy ... bad news for MWC SOS & prestige, a desperate face-saving move that was necessary for BYU.

#4) then came the outright BYU-WAC double-dealing shock... made the MWC move quickly to become STRONGER as a Conference, with more eggs placed in more baskets.

But I would still like to know the What-if's... like:

a) What if the MWC had not done the "great compromise" w/ Boise... would BSU- SDSU have still bolted to the AAC?  I honestly do not know how it would've worked out for the MWC or for BSU-SDSU.  My guesstimate is it would've been a Lose-Lose.  

b ) What if BYU had never Double-Dealt w/ the WAC behind the MWC's back... would the MWC have decimated the WAC anyway (adding 5 teams) ?  Or would the MWC have stopped at adding BSU, or just BSU +2 teams?   I do forget many of the details so feel free to correct me.

c) What if BYU had chosen to stay in the MWC -- How many NY Day Bowls would BYU have made, had it stayed in the MWC?  Would BYU have ever gotten 12 W's  (or maybe 11 W's)  and been invited while playing only 2 or 3 P5 teams annually (as OOC games early in the year) vs. 5 or 6  -- then facing the MWC schedule (including UHa or Fresno or USU) -- then facing Boise annually (either in-Conference play or in the CCG)?   This is anyone's guess... but IMHO that 2011 team, or one of Tysom Hill's teams under Bronco would have made at least 1 (maybe 2) trip to a NY Bowl game.   What's that worth to a BYU... about $5M/year in Rev $$$'s + about $10M more in Prestige, Fan-base motivation & possibly even a P5 invite?   

So much wondering out loud... Who knows ... your thoughts??

A: We would still have the mtn, because that had heavy amounts of advertising dollars from BYU advertisers, as our fanbase was heavily invested in Comcast at that time.  Comcast lost tons of subs due to BYU fans bolting when we went indy in 2011.  SDSU and Boise would have been happy to stick around if BYU was here and wouldn't have chased money in the NBE, imo.   So, maybe they renegotiate the TV deal like they did a bit later and it's a little better with BYU as part of it.    

B:  I don't think BYU double dealt, there is no solid documentation of it but for the sake of the question, I'll play.  If BYU stayed here, that would have left us in 2011 with BYU, Boise, TCU, SDSU, UNLV, Wyoming, CSU, AFA, and UNM.  That is an 8 game conference schedule in 2011.  In 2012, TCU left.  I think at that point, Fresno and Nevada/Hawaii (one of the two) probably would have been invited, and I think the league sits pat as a ten team league.  The WAC is decimated and USU and SJSU and whoever is left over between Nevada and Hawaii are either forced to go to D1aa or be FBS independents after teams like LaTech bolted from the WAC.  I don't think they bring on enough teams to go to a 12 team league, and they settle on a 10 team league after TCU left and have a 9 game conf schedule.  If they did end up in a 12 team league, I think Hawaii and USU (BYU's friends) are more likely invited over SJSU; who has a terrible overall athletic dept. 

C: The 2013 team was a pretty good team, and if we make the OOC schedule Texas, Utah, USU, and MTSU as the OOC and act like BYU broomed the MWC; a one loss BYU doesn't get in over Central Florida to play Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl that year.  They had one loss to a good South Carolina team by three points and were ranked pretty highly by the end of the year.  BYU played a tougher schedule, but the SoS would have decreased significantly playing a MWC.  Central Florida was in the high 70s.  BYU was in the 30s, but ours easily drops lower if we played a conf schedule here.  Our 2013 team would have likely streamrolled this league, but it wouldn't have mattered as far as a BCS game.

2011: BYU wouldn't have won this league.  TCU beat BYU soundly that year.  Boise also lost to TCU that year, but that was Moore's senior year and BYU would have lost to them too.  No BCS game.
2012: No BCS game for BYU.  BYU had losses to SJSU, Boise, Utah, and ranked Oregon State and Notre Dame squads.  Not a good enough team to make such a game. 
2013: See above
2014: I think if Taysom Hill had stayed healthy the whole year, BYU would have had a good chance of going unbeaten and getting in as an at large NY6 game.  However, he didn't, and BYU had multiple losses to MWC teams after the injury.
2015: BYU went 4-0 against the MWC this year, and if they were here, they probably would have played SDSU in the title game.  However, Houston went to the NY6 game this year, and pounded Florida State; so I'm doubtful BYU would have been in over Houston if we made it a one loss team.  BYU was good this year, but not NY6 at large good.  
2016: BYU lost to Boise in a close game.  The team always played close games, but lost several.  They did beat Wyoming.  A 1-2 loss BYU team wouldn't have been in a NY6 game over the directional Michigan team that played and lost to Michigan.

So, I'll take zero as the answer.  Sorry for the wall of text.  This is why I laugh every time someone says how much we're missing out here.  It wouldn't be all that much different from what we've had, except with less wins over name teams, less money, dealing with Hair, and other stuff I've explained lately.


 

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1 minute ago, Bob said:

In all honesty probably one. I hate the cougars

Maybe.  It really would depend how the OOC schedule worked out in those years, and it would have had to be a year when BYU beat Boise, so 2013 or 2015.

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Just now, Bob said:

If it's true that you missed out on one big bowl then I would consider independence a failure. 

It's one game.  I think you guys put too much in it.  Look at the MWC since we went to this system, the whole league has only made one game in four years or however long it's been.  And it was against Arizona.  It was fun that Boise made it to a Fiesta Bowl, but Arizona as an opponent was lacking.

BYU has had lots of games against big name schools since going independent, games that couldn't have otherwise happened if they were tied to a 9 game schedule here with Utah and potentially USU as OOC games every year. I'm operating under the assumption that the league wouldn't have added as many teams, and maybe USU gets in but maybe not.  

What if BYU gets to an NY6 game as an independent at some point?  

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41 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Third, Eastern Idaho always has been, and always will be BYU property.   Rexburg Idaho is the host city of the largest enrollment University in the State of Idaho.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

You can have Eastern Idaho. It is more like Northern Utah anyway. 

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1 minute ago, Lobo Amor said:

Not any of them, face it @#1Stunner and byu fans, the cougars can't survive without the MWC whether they make more money as an Indy or not.

And that's the bottom line.

Stop playing us then.  Teams somehow see a financial benefit from playing.  Why is that?

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10 minutes ago, AztecSU said:

When wyo and other front range fans say this it shows how out of touch they are on the distance/travel issue for a school like SDSU.

I'm not saying you don't have a bit of a chunk extra, but don't try and compare it to an AAC travel schedule. San Diego State to a smattering of schools from either conference:

        UNLV- 324 miles

        Wyoming- 1,115 miles

        Air Force- 1,140 miles

        CSU- 1,136 miles 

        New Mexico- 767 miles

        Boise State- 951 miles

        Utah State- 828 miles

        Nevada- 556 miles

 

AAC:

      Tulsa- 1,412 miles

      UCONN- 2,906 miles

      South Florida- 2,441 miles

      East Carolina- 2,616 miles

      Memphis- 1,804 miles

      Houston- 1,462 miles

Yep the struggle would have really been helped going to an east coast conference. 

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1 minute ago, Bob said:

Then you'd still have at least one less big time bowl then if you stayed in the MWC. The big bowls are the apex of college football 

If we stayed, we wouldn't get one as an independent, right?

I hate the Access Bowl in principle because it's not based on merit, and it was previously based more on merit.

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