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Guest #1Stunner

TCU Case Study - jumping conferences in order to improve?

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The problem with this mega conference is you don't increase viewership. If SDSU moves into this new mega-conference they keep their fans. Then what are you assuming that all of the SJSU and FSU fans are going to start following them because the conf they are in. Not a chance the only reason I give a damn about any other MW school is because we share a conf. So you have a mega conf filled with what is considered second tier schools then what? Its not like all of a sudden fans are going to flock to this. There is no reason that the TV money is going to flow in just because the conference looks new. Each of those schools brings the value they bring and with virtually no more leverage. It is more likely that this conf would still get pushed around by the TV money get a crap contract, and now pay a bunch of money to travel.

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3 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

Since BYU went Indy, it is not really viewed as a G5 by the National Media anymore.  

This Fox Sports article is probably a fair ranking of BYU in college football:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/college-football-program-pecking-order-3-0-dividing-all-66-bcs-teams-into-four-tier-hierarchy-052517

It's telling why schools like SDSU want out of the MWC.  There is little prestige, unfortunately. 

Also, I see little motivation for BYU to drop the many P5 games it has on its future schedules.

OUCH!  Independence has been an utter failure, huh @RAMification?  Not only is BYU making way more money, playing better schedules, etc.  There is a perception benefit there too...  But it's OK, BYU should just come back to this watered down conference and lose out on comments from national outlets like the following:

"The 2017 list comprises 66 schools — the Power 5 conference members and independents Notre Dame and BYU. It’s a harsh reality, but in the playoff era, every Group of 5 school — even standouts like Boise State and Houston — is seen as a peasant (or worse), so there’s no point listing them."

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32 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Sounds like a dumb ass idea to me, as you were. 

Of course it does. Your school would be out.

"If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, are you still a moron?"

"Give me a Sandwich and a Douchebag and there's nothing I can't do!"

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34 minutes ago, SF-SJSU02 said:

The problem with this mega conference is you don't increase viewership. If SDSU moves into this new mega-conference they keep their fans. Then what are you assuming that all of the SJSU and FSU fans are going to start following them because the conf they are in. Not a chance the only reason I give a damn about any other MW school is because we share a conf. So you have a mega conf filled with what is considered second tier schools then what? Its not like all of a sudden fans are going to flock to this. There is no reason that the TV money is going to flow in just because the conference looks new. Each of those schools brings the value they bring and with virtually no more leverage. It is more likely that this conf would still get pushed around by the TV money get a crap contract, and now pay a bunch of money to travel.

It is not a shock that SJSU fans are not following the argument here.

"If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, are you still a moron?"

"Give me a Sandwich and a Douchebag and there's nothing I can't do!"

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3 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

Since BYU went Indy, it is not really viewed as a G5 by the National Media anymore.  

This Fox Sports article is probably a fair ranking of BYU in college football:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/college-football-program-pecking-order-3-0-dividing-all-66-bcs-teams-into-four-tier-hierarchy-052517

It's telling why schools like SDSU want out of the MWC.  There is little prestige, unfortunately. 

Also, I see little motivation for BYU to drop the many P5 games it has on its future schedules.

One dipshit writes an off season weenie pull of an article and suddenly all zoobs are killing kittens by the millions.

Too funny

"If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, are you still a moron?"

"Give me a Sandwich and a Douchebag and there's nothing I can't do!"

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Guest #1Stunner
23 minutes ago, Chad Sexington said:

One dipshit writes an off season weenie pull of an article and suddenly all zoobs are killing kittens by the millions.

Too funny

Stewart Mandel always gets Ute fans upset.  Guy likes to troll Utes for some reason.

He recently makes fun of Ute fans for obsessing about BYU.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Chad Sexington said:

Of course it does. Your school would be out.

Ummm I said HIS idea was stupid, your idea with more schools actually sounds like a decent idea. And yes, I am aware that SJSU would be left out. Believe it or not, I can objectively look at things *gasp*.

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I am bored at work tonight, so I've decided to make my list as mentioned earlier in the thread if you were going to do a particular division of G5 schools to group and have them play each other.

I think you can take the entire AAC.  Those programs are all in big markets, many share them with P5 league schools, but I think all of those have some worth.  If you were going to cut one or two, I'd cut Tulane and Temple, but for argument's sake let's include the entire league.

As far as D1 independents, there's UMass, BYU, Army, and Liberty.  BYU would never join this league, so I'll count them out.  Army has some worth, but I'd say that's it of this group.

The MAC has very few attractive programs for a league like this.  I'd argue Northern Illinois and Toledo are the only programs that have the consistency, fanbase, and recruiting.  I know one of the directional Michigan schools was good last year, but it seems flash in the pan to me.

I think CUSA has very few programs for a league like this as well.  I'd argue LaTech, Marshall, Rice, Southern Miss, and maybe Western Kentucky and MTSU.  

The Sunbelt would include Appy State, and that's about it. I think you could relegate most of the Sun Belt to the 1aa league and nobody would even notice.

For the sake of argument, I'll just include the entire MWC.  I think you could easily cut three to five teams out, but I think most of the teams here play enough quality of football that they should be included.

That leaves us with 12+1+2+6+1+12=34.  If you wanted to cut six teams, I think you easily could, leaving 28 teams.

That would be 7 team divisions x 4 with 6 games against your division and 1 game against each of the other divisions for a total of 9 conference games and some games against whoever else to round out your 12 games.  I'm skeptical this would lead to decent revenue or interest though.  

 

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5 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

I am bored at work tonight, so I've decided to make my list as mentioned earlier in the thread if you were going to do a particular division of G5 schools to group and have them play each other.

I think you can take the entire AAC.  Those programs are all in big markets, many share them with P5 league schools, but I think all of those have some worth.  If you were going to cut one or two, I'd cut Tulane and Temple, but for argument's sake let's include the entire league.

As far as D1 independents, there's UMass, BYU, Army, and Liberty.  BYU would never join this league, so I'll count them out.  Army has some worth, but I'd say that's it of this group.

The MAC has very few attractive programs for a league like this.  I'd argue Northern Illinois and Toledo are the only programs that have the consistency, fanbase, and recruiting.  I know one of the directional Michigan schools was good last year, but it seems flash in the pan to me.

I think CUSA has very few programs for a league like this as well.  I'd argue LaTech, Marshall, Rice, Southern Miss, and maybe Western Kentucky and MTSU.  

The Sunbelt would include Appy State, and that's about it. I think you could relegate most of the Sun Belt to the 1aa league and nobody would even notice.

For the sake of argument, I'll just include the entire MWC.  I think you could easily cut three to five teams out, but I think most of the teams here play enough quality of football that they should be included.

That leaves us with 12+1+2+6+1+12=34.  If you wanted to cut six teams, I think you easily could, leaving 28 teams.

That would be 7 team divisions x 4 with 6 games against your division and 1 game against each of the other divisions for a total of 9 conference games and some games against whoever else to round out your 12 games.  I'm skeptical this would lead to decent revenue or interest though.  

 

Zero interest.  Zero benefit.  Zero chance of happening. 

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6 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

I am bored at work tonight, so I've decided to make my list as mentioned earlier in the thread if you were going to do a particular division of G5 schools to group and have them play each other.

I think you can take the entire AAC.  Those programs are all in big markets, many share them with P5 league schools, but I think all of those have some worth.  If you were going to cut one or two, I'd cut Tulane and Temple, but for argument's sake let's include the entire league.

As far as D1 independents, there's UMass, BYU, Army, and Liberty.  BYU would never join this league, so I'll count them out.  Army has some worth, but I'd say that's it of this group.

The MAC has very few attractive programs for a league like this.  I'd argue Northern Illinois and Toledo are the only programs that have the consistency, fanbase, and recruiting.  I know one of the directional Michigan schools was good last year, but it seems flash in the pan to me.

I think CUSA has very few programs for a league like this as well.  I'd argue LaTech, Marshall, Rice, Southern Miss, and maybe Western Kentucky and MTSU.  

The Sunbelt would include Appy State, and that's about it. I think you could relegate most of the Sun Belt to the 1aa league and nobody would even notice.

For the sake of argument, I'll just include the entire MWC.  I think you could easily cut three to five teams out, but I think most of the teams here play enough quality of football that they should be included.

That leaves us with 12+1+2+6+1+12=34.  If you wanted to cut six teams, I think you easily could, leaving 28 teams.

That would be 7 team divisions x 4 with 6 games against your division and 1 game against each of the other divisions for a total of 9 conference games and some games against whoever else to round out your 12 games.  I'm skeptical this would lead to decent revenue or interest though.  

 

I am skeptical as well.  I don't see why ESPN or whoever would agree to pay each of these schools more just because 28 or 34 of them are now in a conference instead of 12 of them in a conference. They are all G5 schools with local interest which is what keeps the TV pay down.   

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Jack,you really think that byu would say no to a BoR league? 

Bspn may not have anything to do with it. What if Google, Amazo or Twitter was interested?  What if each team could wrangle a Tier 3 deal in addition?

Dont say "never" when we don't have the facts. 

"If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, are you still a moron?"

"Give me a Sandwich and a Douchebag and there's nothing I can't do!"

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17 minutes ago, Chad Sexington said:

Jack,you really think that byu would say no to a BoR league? 

Bspn may not have anything to do with it. What if Google, Amazo or Twitter was interested?  What if each team could wrangle a Tier 3 deal in addition?

Dont say "never" when we don't have the facts. 

Depending on who was creating the BoR, an invite might not even be sent.  

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3 hours ago, Chad Sexington said:

Jack,you really think that byu would say no to a BoR league? 

Bspn may not have anything to do with it. What if Google, Amazo or Twitter was interested?  What if each team could wrangle a Tier 3 deal in addition?

Dont say "never" when we don't have the facts. 

I don't think they would, but I don't consider this a BoR league.

BoR is something with the left behinds of the Big 12, BYU, and a few others, imo.  I don't consider relegating yourself to something under the P5 as a viable option for BYU, and that is what this would be.  I don't think it would garner that much TV money.  I don't think it would garner that much interest. 

Independence is a challenge and certainly has it's drawbacks, but overall it's been better than what I thought and BYU would just sit tight in independence if that league came to pass, imo.

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10 hours ago, Jack Bauer said:

I don't think they would, but I don't consider this a BoR league.

BoR is something with the left behinds of the Big 12, BYU, and a few others, imo.  I don't consider relegating yourself to something under the P5 as a viable option for BYU, and that is what this would be.  I don't think it would garner that much TV money.  I don't think it would garner that much interest. 

Independence is a challenge and certainly has it's drawbacks, but overall it's been better than what I thought and BYU would just sit tight in independence if that league came to pass, imo.

Yep, I can see BYU aligning with BigXII leftovers and select G5's to round out a conference.  I don't see them joining a conference of pure G5's - especially one as watered down as that one appears to be.

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The AAC's 'mistake' was inviting Tulane and Tulsa. Small private schools with small fan bases in markets dominated by the P5 (LSU and Oklahoma, no less!). The AAC got the shaft by the new CCG rules, because the very reason the AAC added Tulane and Tulsa was to get to 12 members, so that they could stage the CCG (because 12 members were required at the time).  

Let's give the AAC a hindsight mulligan - knowing it loses the C7, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, Louisville, and TCU - and striving for the BoR status.

UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Navy , Memphis, Temple

With new CCG rules, perhaps this 9-team group stays as is and simply plays the CCG after an 8-game round robin schedule. Or, they might invite ECU (top football attendance in the G5) and go two 5-team divisions. 

Regardless, that's a group full of schools that are basically interchangeable with most lower P5 schools.

Meanwhile, perhaps the MWC - with its hindsight mulligan - stays at 9 schools, and adds only Boise St., Fresno, and Hawaii(?) to replace TCU, Utah, and BYU.

Air Force, SDSU, CSU, Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV, Boise St., Fresno, Hawaii. 8-game round robin followed by the CCG. Or, invite Nevada if you want two 5-team divisions.

Boom, those are sexier conferences. At that point, an AAC-MWC affiliation would essentially establish the Best of the Rest. (Or, from a different perspective, just a couple of cuts in each conference and you are essentially there).

 

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On 5/23/2017 at 10:02 PM, #1Stunner said:

The interesting thing is that TCU took chances on marginal improvements.   WAC to CUSA, to MWC to BIG EAST.

They were willing to dump old rivalries to do it, too.   It paid off. 

The WAC which TCU left was garbage. The eight charter members of the MWC had left and Boise hadn't yet joined so that was pretty much a lateral move. Going from the MWC to the BE was a total no-brainer since that BE got a full share of BCS money. Joining the B12 rather than the BE was also a no-brainer since the BE's continued status as a BCS conference was in jeopardy. So the only real "chance" TCU took was going from CUSA to the MWC. But so doing was definitely a risk which paid huge dividends. To its credit TCU realized the MWC was then slowly but surely improving whereas for CUSA it was the opposite. Still, TCU was a huge geographic outlier in the MWC.

So I agree you have to give TCU props for that move to the MWC. Had the Owls not done that there's a good chance that rather than the B12 they would have been in the AAC right now.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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On 5/24/2017 at 0:03 AM, Rampage said:

Maybe SDSU & BSU to the AAC would have worked?

Had you guys and UNLV or Fresno expressed interest in also joining that conference so it could have created a western division, absolutely.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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On 5/24/2017 at 7:02 AM, RSF said:

The idea that the conference hopping was a 'strategy' is ridiculous.  The strategy was to learn from the mistakes of the past and invest considerable time, effort and cash in upgrading the athetic programs in the hopes that the investment would pay off in the end with an invite back to the big kids table....someday. 

But not for a conference like the MWC. Too many members are located in lightly populated areas and so have a very low potential for a good return on investment and in the case of SJSU, having a Pac-12 school and one of the half dozen most successful franchises in NFL history in its backyard negates being in a heavily populated area.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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