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Obamacare Lives!

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I don't get why young people won't buy in, I see so many complaints on Facebook about young people who have problems with it.

Nobody is going to be young forever.  You pay in now, so you can reap the benefits later.  It's what is good for society.

I don't like the idea of being mandated to purchase something, but I don't people running around uninsured either.

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9 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

I'm on record as saying we should have.  Obamacare should have had some of the things the conservatives value in it to balance out some of the problems we've seen with the law.  But, elections have consequences and whatnot.

I wish someone would blink and work with the other side like +++++ing adults instead of the gaggle of idiots we have running shit on both sides of the aisle.

Oh I agree. In this case however, @Akkula crowing aside, it isn't really partisanship that's torpedoing the "repeal/replace" effort. 

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18 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Oh I agree. In this case however, @Akkula crowing aside, it isn't really partisanship that's torpedoing the "repeal/replace" effort. 

For sure.  It's that the new law is so shitty, they want to keep the old shitty law.

You just need to tweak some things with Obamacare.  There's some real good that came out of that.  It doesn't need to be repeated and replaced.  Even though it was Obama's baby, it's ok to work out some new things under this law.  I don't get why they have such disdain for it.  You can tweak a few things and get an even better law that serves the public better.

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23 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Carrots and Sticks to serve smaller rural areas/states for insurers or a public option for those areas

Drug Reimportation

Outlaw price discrimination in healthcare between cash payers and various insurers.  Tons of ideas.

We don't need tons of ideas, we need better ideas.  I don't see it in these ideas.

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The World Needs More Cowboys!

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3 hours ago, pokebball said:

Well, I did just suggest that single payer is the only fix I see as a viable solution.  You got another idea?  Let's hear it.

Here is a shock.  Me, the "communist" disagrees.   The current system has a couple structural problems that ought to be fixed:

1) both consumers and companies have been allowed to game the system. Stop it on both sides.....  no using emergency rooms with no insurance, no canceling with pre-existing conditions, maintain continuous coverage or roll the dice.

2) have a base National program that must be offered nationally to participate.  Then allow other plans customized for niches.  

3) attack the real drivers of cost.... too many complex plans, market problems in some areas.   

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3 hours ago, Jack Bauer said:

I don't get why young people won't buy in, I see so many complaints on Facebook about young people who have problems with it.

Nobody is going to be young forever.  You pay in now, so you can reap the benefits later.  It's what is good for society.

I don't like the idea of being mandated to purchase something, but I don't people running around uninsured either.

The problem is they have to pay too much early on.   Dems put too much on young folks and didn't really do much for cost control.   

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5 hours ago, Jack Bauer said:

I don't get why young people won't buy in, I see so many complaints on Facebook about young people who have problems with it.

Nobody is going to be young forever.  You pay in now, so you can reap the benefits later.  It's what is good for society.

I don't like the idea of being mandated to purchase something, but I don't people running around uninsured either.

 

1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

The problem is they have to pay too much early on.   Dems put too much on young folks and didn't really do much for cost control.   

and trump was expecting an increase in insurance rates for the 50-64 age group by up to 700%. so $5000/mo for insurance for that age group would be ok?

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16 minutes ago, 4UNLV said:

 

and trump was expecting an increase in insurance rates for the 50-64 age group by up to 700%. so $5000/mo for insurance for that age group would be ok?

Of course not.  That's why items that reduce system costs are needed.   Much of them discussed in the other thread.   

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44 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

So why do you keep promoting solutions that increase costs?

 

They only increase costs in your brain.  In terms of Pharma pricing I never proposed a solution.  I said we needed a solution that controlled costs and posted research that showed Pharma prices have no relation to R&D costs.  I also explained why demand curves have no possible way to control pricing.  It's obvious both from a theoretical and a practical standpoint.

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Trumpanzee Care failed because he couldn't get enough Republicans to vote for it. clown.gif

ha-ha-nelson-Simpsons-nelson-ha-ha-93-p-672x480.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, sactowndog said:

They only increase costs in your brain.  In terms of Pharma pricing I never proposed a solution.  I said we needed a solution that controlled costs and posted research that showed Pharma prices have no relation to R&D costs.  I also explained why demand curves have no possible way to control pricing.  It's obvious both from a theoretical and a practical standpoint.

We have all the drugs to treat diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol all for less then $4 a month.    

How do you think communism will beat that?

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15 hours ago, jackmormon said:

Make the fines heavy enough where it doesn't make financial sense for young people to blow the individual mandate off.

Have the Feds pay for 100% of Medicaid expansion.

Fund catastrophic reinsurance programs to make state non profit co-ops viable.

Why fine when you just have to get incentives correct and then let people make choices.   People avoid for two reasons:

1) they can just add insurance anyday and not be excluded.  Add continuous coverage.

2) they can walk into any hospital and be treated.  Eliminate the requirement for hospitals to treat anyone and people will get insurance quickly.

3) Make basic plans targeted by age.   

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5 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

We have all the drugs to treat diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol all for less then $4 a month.    

How do you think communism will beat that?

At what point did I say drugs off patent protection would be controlled in any manner.   You keep making shit up and keep failing.   Try to keep with the point and stop proving how you identical to the far right freedom caucus.  

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1 hour ago, sactowndog said:

Why fine when you just have to get incentives correct and then let people make choices.   People avoid for two reasons:

1) they can just add insurance anyday and not be excluded.  Add continuous coverage.

2) they can walk into any hospital and be treated.  Eliminate the requirement for hospitals to treat anyone and people will get insurance quickly.

3) Make basic plans targeted by age.   

I am not necessarily sold on the idea of single payer either and I would be open to many modifications to Obamacare.  In truth Democrats have always wanted Republicans to participate in the process.

Obama came into office on a "post partisan" platform and he wanted more than anything to get Republicans onboard for the ACA.  He wanted to have a public option but brought the ACA further to a right while "negotiating with himself" to try to get Republican votes.  There was a well known scheme to make it Obama's "Waterloo" and he was never going to get any Republican votes no matter how much he tried to bring it to the right.   Then, as now, Democrats are looking for bipartisan targeted solutions to fix various parts of the American healthcare system.  Schumer just reiterated that point.

We still just need to see if Trump and the Republicans are going to try to improve the American healthcare system and maintain it or if they are going to try to sabotage it and neglect it to try to hasten problems.  Trump and the Republicans are going to have a lot of problems if they think they can blame a party with no power for future problems in the American healthcare system.  I just wonder if the "Republican fever" has finally broken now that they know they can't repeal it.  It is time for the Republicans to embrace Democrats, narrowly targeted bills, and forget complete repeal or they will never get any legislation past the freedom caucus if they decide to go at it alone.  

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28 minutes ago, Akkula said:

I am not necessarily sold on the idea of single payer either and I would be open to many modifications to Obamacare.  In truth Democrats have always wanted Republicans to participate in the process.

Obama came into office on a "post partisan" platform and he wanted more than anything to get Republicans onboard for the ACA.  He wanted to have a public option but brought the ACA further to a right while "negotiating with himself" to try to get Republican votes.  There was a well known scheme to make it Obama's "Waterloo" and he was never going to get any Republican votes no matter how much he tried to bring it to the right.   Then, as now, Democrats are looking for bipartisan targeted solutions to fix various parts of the American healthcare system.  Schumer just reiterated that point.

We still just need to see if Trump and the Republicans are going to try to improve the American healthcare system and maintain it or if they are going to try to sabotage it and neglect it to try to hasten problems.  Trump and the Republicans are going to have a lot of problems if they think they can blame a party with no power for future problems in the American healthcare system.  I just wonder if the "Republican fever" has finally broken now that they know they can't repeal it.  It is time for the Republicans to embrace Democrats, narrowly targeted bills, and forget complete repeal or they will never get any legislation past the freedom caucus if they decide to go at it alone.  

I agree with much of this statement.   While not perfect, the problem Republicans have is Obamacare is built on a right wing Heritage Foundation model.   There aren't many solutions to the right of it.  Now that doesn't mean some adjustments need to be made.  They do.  But any plan that tries to address the issue will look like ObamaCare lite.  

So your choices are: 1) go left into single payer 2) eliminate Medicare expansion and pre-existing conditions (rejected by Republican moderates) 3) Create ObamaCare 2.0 to fix the obvious problems (rejected by the Freedom Caucus)

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13 hours ago, sactowndog said:

Here is a shock.  Me, the "communist" disagrees.   The current system has a couple structural problems that ought to be fixed:

1) both consumers and companies have been allowed to game the system. Stop it on both sides.....  no using emergency rooms with no insurance, no canceling with pre-existing conditions, maintain continuous coverage or roll the dice.

2) have a base National program that must be offered nationally to participate.  Then allow other plans customized for niches.  

3) attack the real drivers of cost.... too many complex plans, market problems in some areas.   

So if you have a heart attack with no insurance you're just supposed to die?

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You guys still don't get it. Obamacare is completely dependent on insurance companies and third party administrators to deliver the goods. There is no incentive for these companies to participate in a money losing venture. The ACA is such an insidious monstrosity that has 6 separate taxes and a huge amount of bureaucracy that has taken over the financing and implementation of our healthcare system. Throw money at it with subsidies if you wish and I promise you it will not improve health care access one bit. Much of what you guys are suggesting runs afoul of FTC and IRS regulations among other regulatory agencies. I honestly don't see how you can work the edges of the ACA to improve it. Maybe repeal it and introduce some of the more popular aspects of it with different funding sources. Not easy to do obviously as the republicans have seen. The Democrats better be incentivized to help craft an alternative because it's just a matter of time before the ACA implodes since they don't have the votes to add any more funding.

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The ACA doesn't work right because it hasn't been fully unveiled...the SCOTUS struck down forced Medicaid expansion which creates a coverage gap that was never intended to be there.

why should the democrats help? Make the GOP own this shit-show and then make them pay dearly at the midterms.

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9 minutes ago, UofMTigers said:

The ACA doesn't work right because it hasn't been fully unveiled...the SCOTUS struck down forced Medicaid expansion which creates a coverage gap that was never intended to be there.

why should the democrats help? Make the GOP own this shit-show and then make them pay dearly at the midterms.

So long as the system is Obamacare the Dems are going to own it.

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We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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