pokebball Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 The entire health care argument comes down to who is going to pay for it. There is a limit of one's ability to sell the idea of you paying for my healthcare / health insurance. Quote The World Needs More Cowboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSanDiegan Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 9 hours ago, pokebball said: The entire health care argument comes down to who is going to pay for it. There is a limit of one's ability to sell the idea of you paying for my healthcare / health insurance. Except we do it anyway when Reagan mandated emergency rooms accept all patients and when Republicans decided we should be the only country that allows unlimited pricing on pharmaceuticals. So the Republicans have already mandated it. They just do it in a dumbass manner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 On 3/23/2017 at 0:29 PM, sactowndog said: Then the question is what can be done to control unlimited pricing power without harming innovation. Plenty of markets innovate without unlimited pricing power. On 3/23/2017 at 3:51 PM, thelawlorfaithful said: Name one with comparable development costs and barriers to entry as is found in the pharmaceutical industry. Quote We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: Sorry been traveling and my phone won't let me look up industry HHI scores to compare levels of industry concentration to address your barriers to entry criteria. But off the top of my head I would suggest you read the thread on coal to see a utility industry which has constraints on their return but also significant innovation. Another would be the computer hardware industry which again has significant barriers to entry, high development costs and innovation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofMTigers Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 the reason this issue bothers me is my parents... My dad worked hard for 35 years at his job and had plenty of money to retire but my mom had cancer several years back. Dad had to work 5 years he didn't need to just to keep insurance for my mom with a preexisting condition. All because of the ACA he was able to retire a year ago and get coverage on the exchange...they are now in the home stretch until Medicare kicks in (they just turned 64) and now the GOPers want to screw all that up. so see this from my perspective...under the 'old way' my mom would not have insurance if dad retired...because of Obama, my dad was able to retire and my mom with a preexisting condition has full (affordable) coverage why shouldn't I support the ACA as it helps me and mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokebball Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 13 hours ago, sactowndog said: Except we do it anyway when Reagan mandated emergency rooms accept all patients and when Republicans decided we should be the only country that allows unlimited pricing on pharmaceuticals. So the Republicans have already mandated it. They just do it in a dumbass manner Of course we've been doing it. That doesn't mean you can do more of it without pushback. You need to understand there are limits. Quote The World Needs More Cowboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokebball Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, UofMTigers said: the reason this issue bothers me is my parents... My dad worked hard for 35 years at his job and had plenty of money to retire but my mom had cancer several years back. Dad had to work 5 years he didn't need to just to keep insurance for my mom with a preexisting condition. All because of the ACA he was able to retire a year ago and get coverage on the exchange...they are now in the home stretch until Medicare kicks in (they just turned 64) and now the GOPers want to screw all that up. so see this from my perspective...under the 'old way' my mom would not have insurance if dad retired...because of Obama, my dad was able to retire and my mom with a preexisting condition has full (affordable) coverage why shouldn't I support the ACA as it helps me and mine? I said in a thread a couple of weeks ago that opinions change when it gets personal. Some would say you're dad should have kept working until Medicare kicked in. I wish I could retire before then, but I won't be able to, just for the insurance. I think I need to, you don't think your dad needed to. Thats the diff I see. 1 Quote The World Needs More Cowboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawlorfaithful Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 56 minutes ago, sactowndog said: Sorry been traveling and my phone won't let me look up industry HHI scores to compare levels of industry concentration to address your barriers to entry criteria. But off the top of my head I would suggest you read the thread on coal to see a utility industry which has constraints on their return but also significant innovation. Another would be the computer hardware industry which again has significant barriers to entry, high development costs and innovation. Coal costs $45 per ton to bring to market and computer hardware barriers are not due to government regulations. Neither example even comes close. Try harder. Quote We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, pokebball said: I said in a thread a couple of weeks ago that opinions change when it gets personal. Some would say you're dad should have kept working until Medicare kicked in. I wish I could retire before then, but I won't be able to, just for the insurance. I think I need to, you don't think your dad needed to. Thats the diff I see. Hasn't retirement age for Medicare increased recently, like to 68 or so? The days of retiring at 62 and taking your SS benefits and Medicare early are over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 23 minutes ago, pokebball said: Of course we've been doing it. That doesn't mean you can do more of it without pushback. You need to understand there are limits. Of course there are limits. There are also smarter ways then how we did it pre ACA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokebball Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said: Hasn't retirement age for Medicare increased recently, like to 68 or so? The days of retiring at 62 and taking your SS benefits and Medicare early are over. It's still 65 unless you are disabled. Quote The World Needs More Cowboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokebball Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 minute ago, sactowndog said: Of course there are limits. There are also smarter ways then how we did it pre ACA. Yeah, everyone of us believes there are smarter ways. Odd we can't seem to find it. Quote The World Needs More Cowboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 17 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said: Coal costs $45 per ton to bring to market and computer hardware barriers are not due to government regulations. Neither example even comes close. Try harder. Not talking about coal talking about other innovations in utility generation. Also computer hardware has many barriers to entry which is why the market is so consolidated. Likely more consolidated than Pharma but that was why I was looking for the HHI index before posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactowndog Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 minute ago, pokebball said: Yeah, everyone of us believes there are smarter ways. Odd we can't seem to find it. Well I think the ACA is smarter than pre ACA and apparently so does the majority in Congress. Can we do better than the ACA? I think most everyone agrees we can and if you cut out the extremists on both sides I think that path can be found. But that means 1) Trump needs to engage the Democrats and not the Freedom Caucus 2) The Democrats need to come to the table with a willingness to listen and compromise. Not just maintain the political games we have seen the past years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, pokebball said: It's still 65 unless you are disabled. I think it's 67 if you are born in a certain year or later. Probably be 70 by the time I retire. I would opt out of SS in a second if they would lump sum me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackrabbit Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 The lefties can laugh all they want about the struggling gop. This debate is good. The problem is that the dem party is too far out there to be part of it. Now the gop can't act because half the party would make good democrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofMTigers Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Jackrabbit said: The lefties can laugh all they want about the struggling gop. This debate is good. The problem is that the dem party is too far out there to be part of it. Now the gop can't act because half the party would make good democrats. yes, Republicans will end up being the Republicans undoing...not democrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPslograd Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, pokebball said: It's still 65 unless you are disabled. You can elect to receive SS at different ages, it just impacts your payout. Jack is correct that the full retirement age is now 67. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokebball Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 24 minutes ago, sactowndog said: Well I think the ACA is smarter than pre ACA and apparently so does the majority in Congress. Can we do better than the ACA? I think most everyone agrees we can and if you cut out the extremists on both sides I think that path can be found. But that means 1) Trump needs to engage the Democrats and not the Freedom Caucus 2) The Democrats need to come to the table with a willingness to listen and compromise. Not just maintain the political games we have seen the past years. Trump is part of the solution, no doubt. But it's really the GOP in congress, and particularly the house, that needs to engage the Dems vs the freedom caucus. Can the house moderates come together? Unfortunatly, I don't see it from either side. I hope I'm wrong. Quote The World Needs More Cowboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...