Chile_Ute Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, UofMTigers said: a pony isn't an essential service...not dying from stuff that killed people in the 1500s is...at least in my opinion. roads are an essential service...but yet roads cost money...so we have the govt do it via taxes. if we do that with roads...why not healthcare? Jesus...didn't know you were going to take that literally. On paper I'm not opposed to a base universal coverage with a personal upgrade option. My biggest hang up is having the government run it....we are already bogged down with bureaucratic checklists that detract from patient care now. I can only imagine how bad it would be if they are in control across the board. 2 Quote Nothing to really say here.....except GO MWC!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofMTigers Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, Chile_Ute said: Jesus...didn't know you were going to take that literally. On paper I'm not opposed to a base universal coverage with a personal upgrade option. My biggest hang up is having the government run it....we are already bogged down with bureaucratic checklists that detract from patient care now. I can only imagine how bad it would be if they are in control across the board. I simply answered sarcasm with sarcasm...I have stated I would prefer a hybrid here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugtang Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 3 hours ago, UofMTigers said: sad, that's one of the things I liked... but really, healthcare should not be tied to a job, period. I don't like the government telling it's people that they have to purchase something from a private company. And no, it's not like auto insurance as you have the choice of not driving. Quote thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_SD_Dude Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Getting back to the subject of deportation... Timing of the new guidelines was poor considering the imminent talks with Mexico. There's a big problem with the plan to deport citizens of third countries back to Mexico if that is the border they've crossed. Mexico doesn't have to accept them. On NPR today they had a bit on the procedure for deporting Mexicans. Virtually none have documents. Mexican officials have to certify they are citizens and accept them. Mexico could simply stop being willing to do this. Both moves on the part of Mexico would leave us with a lot of detainees. Like I said earlier in the thread, time to build more detention capacity. Quote Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngredbullfan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said: Getting back to the subject of deportation... Timing of the new guidelines was poor considering the imminent talks with Mexico. There's a big problem with the plan to deport citizens of third countries back to Mexico if that is the border they've crossed. Mexico doesn't have to accept them. On NPR today they had a bit on the procedure for deporting Mexicans. Virtually none have documents. Mexican officials have to certify they are citizens and accept them. Mexico could simply stop being willing to do this. Both moves on the part of Mexico would leave us with a lot of detainees. Like I said earlier in the thread, time to build more detention capacity. Start building the camps! Quote On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said: I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite. 28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said: I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugtang Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Mexico really isn't the problem. As @youngrebelfan40 pointed out, we have a net loss in immigration with Mexico. The problem is the other Central American countries. Mexico just gets all the shit because they're the ones who border the United States. 1 Quote thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokebball Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, UofMTigers said: unaffordable healthcare is the exact same as no healthcare...it just lets the wealthy sleep well knowing 'they could have it if they would just worked a little harder' Health care and health insurance are two different things. It's important to know the difference Quote The World Needs More Cowboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_SD_Dude Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, mugtang said: Mexico really isn't the problem. As @youngrebelfan40 pointed out, we have a net loss in immigration with Mexico. The problem is the other Central American countries. Mexico just gets all the shit because they're the ones who border the United States. And at the moment, Mexico is detaining and deporting many of those people before they get to our border. Another thing Mexico could do is just stop that enforcement. The Trumpists seem to think we can make Mexico bend to our will. IMO they have a shock coming. The history between the two countries shows that when we give Mexico a chance to unite in antipathy to the US, they will definitely do so. Mexico may suffer, but so will we. And they're a lot more used to it than we are. "Pobre de México tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de Estados Unidos" 1 Quote Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwherb Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Mexico to the US: "They're not ours - they have no documentation. They're not coming here" US to Mexico: "But... but... they crossed from your country and they have brown skin. You have to take them." Mexico to US: "Go pound sand." 4 Quote The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears; it was their final, most essential command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestintheWest Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Jwherb said: Mexico to the US: "They're not ours - they have no documentation. They're not coming here" US to Mexico: "But... but... they crossed from your country and they have brown skin. You have to take them." Mexico to US: "Go pound sand." So Mexico is as racist, if not more racist than Trump. Who woulda thunk it. Quote All is well, For Rice is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycamper Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, BestintheWest said: So Mexico is as racist, if not more racist than Trump. Who woulda thunk it. How does that follow? Quote Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestintheWest Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Old_SD_Dude said: And at the moment, Mexico is detaining and deporting many of those people before they get to our border. Another thing Mexico could do is just stop that enforcement. The Trumpists seem to think we can make Mexico bend to our will. IMO they have a shock coming. The history between the two countries shows that when we give Mexico a chance to unite in antipathy to the US, they will definitely do so. Mexico may suffer, but so will we. And they're a lot more used to it than we are. "Pobre de México tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de Estados Unidos" So Mexico is willing to go full retard and cripple their own country just to "Stick it" to "Trumpists." Dangerous game to play. To say Mexico has any leverage is pretty reaching I'd think. Quote All is well, For Rice is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestintheWest Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Just now, happycamper said: How does that follow? They don't want brown people in their country that is not the same nationality? Right? It's a joke. I thought it was funny. Quote All is well, For Rice is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RoscoesDad Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, BestintheWest said: They don't want brown people in their country that is not the same nationality? Right? It's a joke. I thought it was funny. Yeah most other countries are racist as all get out. But I think the premise is that the USA is better than that and as such always held higher ground. I guess that's no longer a given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestintheWest Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 3 hours ago, mugtang said: Mexico really isn't the problem. As @youngrebelfan40 pointed out, we have a net loss in immigration with Mexico. The problem is the other Central American countries. Mexico just gets all the shit because they're the ones who border the United States. Nevada has the highest proportion of illegals in the country. Nearly 8% of our population were illegal immigrants and something like 70-75% of them were citizens of Mexico. They're over half the illegal immigiration nationally. That's an estimate of up to 175,000 illegal immigrants from Mexico alone in Nevada So while people from Central America and other places slip through the cracks, Mexico is still the main factor in it all. They do a good job on their southern border. A lot better than we do on ours. Quote All is well, For Rice is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestintheWest Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, RoscoesDad said: Yeah most other countries are racist as all get out. But I think the premise is that the USA is better than that and as such always held higher ground. I guess that's no longer a given. It's not racist to want your borders secured and illegal immigration stopped. Mexico does a damn fine job of it. I guess since they are the same skin color though that they can't really claim it being racist. Or bigoted. Or Xenophobe. Whatever the term is under those circumstances. 1 Quote All is well, For Rice is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_SD_Dude Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 48 minutes ago, BestintheWest said: So Mexico is willing to go full retard and cripple their own country just to "Stick it" to "Trumpists." Dangerous game to play. To say Mexico has any leverage is pretty reaching I'd think. I think their ability to refuse to accept deportees gives them a lot of leverage. What are we going to do with them? Quote Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerules009 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 9 hours ago, Old_SD_Dude said: They control both houses. They don't need the Dems to pass a law. But they won't, because they can't legalize what they've demonized. They need dems to get past a filibuster and we both know it will take dems and republicans working together to pass it. Dem's will have to ignore their racist tendencies and allow guest workers even though their union friends will be mad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renoskier Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 57 minutes ago, BestintheWest said: So Mexico is willing to go full retard and cripple their own country just to "Stick it" to "Trumpists." Dangerous game to play. To say Mexico has any leverage is pretty reaching I'd think. Why would you think this? How are we going to force Mexico to take back folks who don't have documents? http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/22/foriegn-minister-mexico-immigrations-proposals/98252710/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestintheWest Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just now, Old_SD_Dude said: I think their ability to refuse to accept deportees gives them a lot of leverage. What are we going to do with them? Send them directly back to their home country like we do with others. It's not enough leverage to change the position. Majority of our illegal population is from Mexico. Especially in the southwest. Illegal immigrants from Mexico make up 70-90% of the illegal immigration in states in the midwest and west coast. Quote All is well, For Rice is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...