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So this is settled...

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16 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

And Truman? Wow...

Truman, Bush 2, JFK, LBJ...

I think they being given some consideration for the wars and conflicts they had to address during their administrations?  Clinton, on the other hand, might have just as well been on roller skates, right?

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3 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Truman, Bush 2, JFK, LBJ...

I think they being given some consideration for the wars and conflicts they had to address during their administrations?  Clinton, on the other hand, might have just as well been on roller skates, right?

Clinton is dogged by his scandal and impeachment. But still was better than truman and lbj.

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4 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Clinton is dogged by his scandal and impeachment. But still was better than truman and lbj.

In my mind as well, but Truman and LBJ had a lot of conflict shyt to deal with.  Clinton had it pretty easy, in some great economic times.  It's hard for me to compare.

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10 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Truman, Bush 2, JFK, LBJ...

I think they being given some consideration for the wars and conflicts they had to address during their administrations?  Clinton, on the other hand, might have just as well been on roller skates, right?

Clinton did nothing special.

He was president during a time of record productivity increases and a massive cut in defense spending.  Which spurred the economy so much that even Clinton's bad economic policies couldn't stop.

Clintons housing policy led directly to the crash in 2009.

Clinton's inability to deal with several terrorist attacks led to 9/11.  Clintons hatred of religious groups led to the Murrow federal building bombing, and several really bad law enforcement decisions attacking individual rights.

Clinton reformed welfare and had some other policy success in combination with a republican congress which makes him light years a better president then Obama.   

I would say average at best.

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1 hour ago, HR_Poke said:

And Truman? Wow...

Buck stops here, tried to civil rights act before there was any popular support, muzzled  MacArthur when he flew off the rails, started the tradition of briefing the VP and presidential candidates, out foxed stalin with the Berlin air lift, helped create NATO, the most effective alliance in modern history.

Him and Eisenhower back to back was a run of presidents I'd like to see again

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2 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Buck stops here, tried to civil rights act before there was any popular support, muzzled  MacArthur when he flew off the rails, started the tradition of briefing the VP and presidential candidates, out foxed stalin with the Berlin air lift, helped create NATO, the most effective alliance in modern history.

Him and Eisenhower back to back was a run of presidents I'd like to see again

Oliver Stone disagrees.  

So take that. 

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears; it was their final, most essential command.

 

 

 

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Just now, HR_Poke said:

Lol I saw his "documentary" on netflix. That dude has some serious issues with revisionist history.

Yeah,  we are watching that now.  

I don't mind alternative narratives if they are factual.  I really think docs ought to cite their source material at the end of each segment. 

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears; it was their final, most essential command.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Buck stops here, tried to civil rights act before there was any popular support, muzzled  MacArthur when he flew off the rails, started the tradition of briefing the VP and presidential candidates, out foxed stalin with the Berlin air lift, helped create NATO, the most effective alliance in modern history.

Him and Eisenhower back to back was a run of presidents I'd like to see again

Dropped 2 nukes when he didn't have to. Then continually used nukes as a threat. Allowed the CIA to continue their overthrows all over the world. Was incredibly racist. Essentially lost the Korean war. Expanded executive powers regarding military force without a congressional declaration of war. Terrible president. He single handedly set the precedent for every US military intervention in the last 70 years.

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4 minutes ago, Jwherb said:

Yeah,  we are watching that now.  

I don't mind alternative narratives if they are factual.  I really think docs ought to cite their source material at the end of each segment. 

Yeah for sure. Most of his "facts" are opinions from other individuals. Very little is a direct reference. I stopped watching when he essentially said stalin was a benevolent dictator just trying to help mother Russia survive and the US was responsible for every negative outcome of the cold war.

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2 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Dropped 2 nukes when he didn't have to.

I suppose he didn't have to if you think millions of dead Japanese civilians are preferable to hundreds of thousands. The decision to use nukes was inherently moral.

2 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

 

Then continually used nukes as a threat.

... As did every president until Clinton...

2 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Allowed the CIA to continue their overthrows all over the world.

Again, which was policy. Also, how true is this? Wasn't one of Eisenhower's 3 campaign planks that Truman was to weak on communism?

2 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Was incredibly racist.

... So racist he proposed civil rights bulls that crashed and burned in congress and used executive orders to desegregate the federal government

2 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Essentially lost the Korean war.

I blame Macarthur for that. The war was won, he had to get greedy and spook China without guarding his flanks. That strike of idiocy erased his brilliance at inchon.

2 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Expanded executive powers regarding military force without a congressional declaration of war. Terrible president. He single handedly set the precedent for every US military intervention in the last 70 years.

... Not LBJ?

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1 hour ago, mugtang said:

Funny that 2 of the top 3 of the list are responsible for massive expansions of executive power. 

Tough to be considered a great president if your best attribute was deferring to congress. No one gets credit for assists. Kobe is ranked higher than Stockton in bb too.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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2 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I suppose he didn't have to if you think millions of dead Japanese civilians are preferable to hundreds of thousands. The decision to use nukes was inherently moral.

... As did every president until Clinton...

Again, which was policy. Also, how true is this? Wasn't one of Eisenhower's 3 campaign planks that Truman was to weak on communism?

... So racist he proposed civil rights bulls that crashed and burned in congress and used executive orders to desegregate the federal government

I blame Macarthur for that. The war was won, he had to get greedy and spook China without guarding his flanks. That strike of idiocy erased his brilliance at inchon.

... Not LBJ?

No. The war was lost. Japan had nothing left and was already inquiring about conditional surrender as long as the emporer remained and wasn't tried as a war criminal. 

He set the precedent of threatening with nukes and military interventionist policy long before LBJ.

He was wildly bigoted and racist. 

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/18/opinion/oe-kuznick18

 

 

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1 minute ago, HR_Poke said:

No. The war was lost. Japan had nothing left and was already inquiring about conditional surrender as long as the emporer remained and wasn't tried as a war criminal. 

Link our just no. Unless you think a communist kanto would be a good idea.

1 minute ago, HR_Poke said:

He set the precedent of threatening with nukes and military

With nukes, sure, but he was the first president to be in a position to use them. 

To threaten with the military? Lol

1 minute ago, HR_Poke said:

interventionist policy long before LBJ.

So just Korea? Seems pretty specious

1 minute ago, HR_Poke said:

He was wildly bigoted and racist. 

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/18/opinion/oe-kuznick18

 

 

So.... As president he defended Israel and desegregated the federal government but as a private citizen he was racist.

If personal morals are a factor now why isn't Carter in the top ten?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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There are a bunch of angry old ladies in upstate New York who have probably already called the creator of this list to inform them that Millard Fillmore is among the greatest presidents.

#MediaBias

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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I mean, if we're going to knock presidents for being racist you'd have to eliminate like 42 or 43 of them (including Trump).

 

I am disappointed that my colleagues ranked JFK so high. He was a complete media creation who almost got us into thermonuclear war. The best thing that happened to his legacy was his assassination.

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On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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9 minutes ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

I mean, if we're going to knock presidents for being racist you'd have to eliminate like 42 or 43 of them (including Trump).

 

I am disappointed that my colleagues ranked JFK so high. He was a complete media creation who almost got us into thermonuclear war. The best thing that happened to his legacy was his assassination.

That's harsh. 

Please explain why you think 'he' almost got us into a thermonuclear war. And why his predecessor or replacement was better for the country.

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1 hour ago, DestinFlPackfan said:

That's harsh. 

Please explain why you think 'he' almost got us into a thermonuclear war. And why his predecessor or replacement was better for the country.

Cuban Missile Crisis

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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