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halfmanhalfbronco

Tillerson takes a tough stance on Russia.

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Tillerson very impressive so far.  The guy is smart.

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I really like this pick for SOS after today.  He had a clear understanding of the issues that left senators on both sides of the isle looking stunned.  Spoke very diplomatically.  Might be my favorite pick after Mattis.

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2 hours ago, Jwherb said:

What is your take on the allegation that Tillerson lied about ExxonMobil lobbying on sanctions? 

Read through this Twitter:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ByronTau?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

That was a sticky spot and by far the most awkward part of his confirmation hearing.  I think he should have been honest in saying that his priorities as CEO of Exxon are not the priorities he would have as S.O.S.  Considering that was his only rough patch in nearly 5 hours of bipartisan grilling I am O.K. with it.  He took a pretty hard line with Russia and his comprehensive ideas on sanctions were pretty refreshing.

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If the reports are correct it's more than a sticky spot,  but outright lying and potentially perjury.  

 

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3 hours ago, Jwherb said:

If the reports are correct it's more than a sticky spot,  but outright lying and potentially perjury.  

 

Would be impossible to prove.  Just like Clinton lying under oath about her emails.  

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28 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Would be impossible to prove.  Just like Clinton lying under oath about her emails.  

Despite Corker saying "bro, you called me and asked about it?"  

Perjury really isn't that difficult to establish and prove in Court.  We do it all the time.  

I think, rather, this is just further evidence of why we (the public) are so disenchanted with government - there's simply no accountability, and no consequences.  Everything gets explained away, rationalized, and forgotten.  You pretty much have to be caught with your d-ck inside some kid with a pound of cocaine on the table for any politician to go down. 

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1 hour ago, Jwherb said:

Despite Corker saying "bro, you called me and asked about it?"  

Perjury really isn't that difficult to establish and prove in Court.  We do it all the time.  

I think, rather, this is just further evidence of why we (the public) are so disenchanted with government - there's simply no accountability, and no consequences.  Everything gets explained away, rationalized, and forgotten.  You pretty much have to be caught with your d-ck inside some kid with a pound of cocaine on the table for any politician to go down. 

Nice phantom quotes.

Plus Tillerson admitted the phone call....the phone call wasn't lobbying the sanctions. He expressed to the state department that pulling out immediately would put lives and environment at risk as they were in the middle of drilling a well. They received an exemption and Tillerson said Exxon will comply with the sanctions.

Also the phone call wasn't lobbying against the sanction, but Tillerson expressing the grandfather clause that the EU excluded in their sanctions and advised the SD the effects it could have on business.

Plus Corker is practically Tillerson's #1 fan.

 

 

Also, didn't you vote for Hillary? Since when do you want responsibility, accountability and consequences?

 

Tillerson did nothing to incriminate himself.

"I have never lobbied against sanctions. ...To my knowledge, Exxon never directly lobbied against sanctions"

Goodluck trying to prosecute that. Especially when the phone call is after sanctions were in place. How can you lobby against something already in place? How is adding input and knowledge lobbying as well?

 

I also thought Tillerson's composure was pretty good. Can't fault the dude for doing his job at Exxon.

 

 

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Weird.  I thought Tillerson came off pretty badly and Rubio especially nailed his ass to the wall on Putin.

Who needs more info to determine whether Putin is a war criminal over the mass murder of civilians by Russian forces in Aleppo?  <insert Obama's fault here>  Who needs more info to determine whether Putin murders journalists and politicians that speak out against him?  That was bad.  Sorry.  These are like common knowledge facts.  It all just feeds into the pro-Russia narrative with Trump's admin.

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11 minutes ago, RoscoesDad said:

Weird.  I thought Tillerson came off pretty badly and Rubio especially nailed his ass to the wall on Putin.

Who needs more info to determine whether Putin is a war criminal over the mass murder of civilians by Russian forces in Aleppo?  <insert Obama's fault here>  Who needs more info to determine whether Putin murders journalists and politicians that speak out against him?  That was bad.  Sorry.  These are like common knowledge facts.  It all just feeds into the pro-Russia narrative with Trump's admin.

That was one thingfor me too. I didn't see much of it and from the sounds of everyone here he seems to be impressive so I will give him that and consider that he probably will be a decent appointment but hearing that quote gave me some pause. When asked if Putin has had opponents/dissadents/reporters murdered he said I don't know, those things happen to dissidents.

Maybe it was poorly worded or sounde better in context on the surface it didn't sound great.

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9 minutes ago, RoscoesDad said:

Weird.  I thought Tillerson came off pretty badly and Rubio especially nailed his ass to the wall on Putin.

Who needs more info to determine whether Putin is a war criminal over the mass murder of civilians by Russian forces in Aleppo?  Who needs more info to determine whether Putin murders journalists and politicians that speak out against him?  That was bad.  Sorry.  These are like common knowledge facts.  It all just feeds into the pro-Russia narrative with Trump's admin.

 

Weird. You want a SoS that is not even in office yet to have some of the harshest verbiage towards another superpower leader. It doesn't matter if it's true or not.

Putin is a piece of shit, but you don't nip the bud before you even hit office otherwise you're bottle necked for your whole term.

Your boy Obama had 8 years to be harsh on Russia. He's primarily to blame with his soft stances from the beginning. Putin's been walking all over him ever since...especially the last 4 years.

 

Remember when Obama, Clinton and Biden all mocked and laughed at Romney and his predictions on Russia? How is foreign policies were outdated? That the cold war is over and he needs to get over it?

I do. I remember Obama bowing his head “This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility.”

 

Annexation of Crimea.

Allepo bombings over 16 months.

Hacks of DNC.....CROSSED THE LINE!!!

Now guys like you and Obama want Trump and Tillerson to be the tough guys when dems sat back for 8 years letting Putin pimp hand the foreign policy.

 

weird.

 


 

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13 minutes ago, tspoke said:

That was one thingfor me too. I didn't see much of it and from the sounds of everyone here he seems to be impressive so I will give him that and consider that he probably will be a decent appointment but hearing that quote gave me some pause. When asked if Putin has had opponents/dissadents/reporters murdered he said I don't know, those things happen to dissidents.

Maybe it was poorly worded or sounde better in context on the surface it didn't sound great.

 

He then said that Russia poses a “danger” to the U.S. and he criticized the Obama administration’s foreign policy. 

“We must also be clear-eyed about our relationship with Russia. Russia today poses a danger, but it is not unpredictable in advancing its own interests. It has invaded Ukraine, including the taking of Crimea, and supported Syrian forces that brutally violate the laws of war. Our NATO allies are right to be alarmed at a resurgent Russia,” he said. 

Tillerson said that the U.S., under Mr. Trump’s leadership, will try to find common ground with the Russian government, but he also said that the U.S. must hold Russia accountable for its actions.

“Where cooperation with Russia based on common interests is possible, such as reducing the global threat of terrorism, we ought to explore these options. Where important differences remain, we should be steadfast in defending the interests of America and her allies. Russia must know that we will be accountable to our commitments and those of our allies, and that Russia must be held to account for its actions,” he said.

 

 

Cardin asked Tillerson if Russia has a legal claim to Crimea. 

“No, sir,” Tillerson said. “That was a taking of territory that was not their’s.”

“In terms of the taking of Crimea, my understanding is that it caught a lot of people by surprise,” said Tillerson, who then said it was the administration’s weak response after Russia’s taking of Crimea that led to Russia coming across the border into eastern Ukraine. 

“I would have recommended that the Ukraine had called its military assets that it had available, put them on the eastern border,” Tillerson said, adding that the U.S. should have supplied them with weapons and offered air surveillance to Ukraine. 

Tillerson said that Russian leadership would have understood a “powerful response” such as a more robust supply of U.S. military assets.

 

 

He asked Tillerson if he believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin worked to influence the 2016 election, denigrate Hillary Clinton as the Democratic presidential nominee and worked to help Mr. Trump’s chances. 

Tillerson said he has not received any classified briefings yet because he has not received his clearance yet, but that he did read the unclassified report that the intelligence community released last week on Russia’s interference in the election.

“That report clearly is troubling and indicates that all of the actions you just described were undertaken,” Tillerson said.

 

 

Asked if Putin is a war criminal, Tillerson said, “I would not use that term.”

Rubio began discussing Russia’s bombing of Aleppo and argued that Putin’s government has conducted war crimes in Aleppo, but Tillerson said those were very critical charges that he’d have to look at more.

 

 

Tillerson explained that Russia has sought to re-establish its role in the global world order since the fall of the former Soviet Union. Tillerson said that Russia was not in a position to assert that for most of the last two decades.

“I think that’s now what we’re witnessing...[the] assertion on their part in order to force a conversation,” Tillerson said about Russia’s role in the global world order.

In what seemed like a surprising statement Tillerson then said, “We aren’t likely to ever be friends...our value systems are starkly different.” 

Tillerson said that the U.S. needs to move Russia from being an adversary always to being an adversary at times and a partner at times.

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2 hours ago, BestintheWest said:

 

Weird. You want a SoS that is not even in office yet to have some of the harshest verbiage towards another superpower leader. It doesn't matter if it's true or not.

Putin is a piece of shit, but you don't nip the bud before you even hit office otherwise you're bottle necked for your whole term.

Your boy Obama had 8 years to be harsh on Russia. He's primarily to blame with his soft stances from the beginning. Putin's been walking all over him ever since...especially the last 4 years.

 

Remember when Obama, Clinton and Biden all mocked and laughed at Romney and his predictions on Russia? How is foreign policies were outdated? That the cold war is over and he needs to get over it?

I do. I remember Obama bowing his head “This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility.”

 

Annexation of Crimea.

Allepo bombings over 16 months.

Hacks of DNC.....CROSSED THE LINE!!!

Now guys like you and Obama want Trump and Tillerson to be the tough guys when dems sat back for 8 years letting Putin pimp hand the foreign policy.

 

weird.

 


 

I can't respond to lies and half-truths and brietbart talking points.  You are spun on Obama man. Wow  We get it. Obama is to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world lol.  How simple.  Btw Your boy Rubio and McCain and other Rs are the ones calling him.out.

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5 minutes ago, RoscoesDad said:

I can't respond to lies and half-truths and brietbart talking points.  You are spun on Obama man. Wow  We get it. Obama is to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world lol.  How simple.  Btw Your boy Rubio and McCain and other Rs are the ones calling him.out.

You obviously did not watch.  Rubio and McCain left impressed with him.

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Just now, RoscoesDad said:

I can't respond to lies and half-truths and brietbart talking points.  You are spun on Obama man. Wow  We get it. Obama is to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world lol.  How simple.  Btw Your boy Rubio and McCain and other Rs are the ones calling him.out.

 

Solid response.

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15 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

You obviously did not watch.  Rubio and McCain left impressed with him.

I am sure that they will vote to confirm.  Don't have a problem with Tillerson tbh. In fact he is probably better than whatever nut job trunp would replace him with.  Just saying that he didn't handle the putin or Russia thing very well and those were questions from Rubio not a socialist ljbtard. 

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5 hours ago, BestintheWest said:

Nice phantom quotes.

Plus Tillerson admitted the phone call....the phone call wasn't lobbying the sanctions. He expressed to the state department that pulling out immediately would put lives and environment at risk as they were in the middle of drilling a well. They received an exemption and Tillerson said Exxon will comply with the sanctions.

Also the phone call wasn't lobbying against the sanction, but Tillerson expressing the grandfather clause that the EU excluded in their sanctions and advised the SD the effects it could have on business.

Plus Corker is practically Tillerson's #1 fan.

 

 

Also, didn't you vote for Hillary? Since when do you want responsibility, accountability and consequences?

 

Tillerson did nothing to incriminate himself.

"I have never lobbied against sanctions. ...To my knowledge, Exxon never directly lobbied against sanctions"

Goodluck trying to prosecute that. Especially when the phone call is after sanctions were in place. How can you lobby against something already in place? How is adding input and knowledge lobbying as well?

 

I also thought Tillerson's composure was pretty good. Can't fault the dude for doing his job at Exxon.

 

 

"ExxonMobil did not lobby against the sanctions," he said multiple times. 

Surprised lawmakers produced lobbying records suggesting otherwise. Democratic Senator Bob Menendez held up lobbying reports showing Exxon spent millions of dollars to lobby Congress about the sanctions placed on Russia as well as the 2010 Iran sanctions. 

For instance, a 2014 lobbying form shows that Exxon lobbied Congress on three different sanctions bills: Russian Aggression Prevention Act of 2014; the Ukraine Freedom Support Act of 2014 and the Sanction Iran, Safeguard America Act of 2014. 

"I know you're new to this, but it's pretty clear...There was lobbying here," said Menendez. 

Menendez noted that lobbying disclosure forms are not needed when companies are simply seeking information or clarification about a bill. "That's not lobbying. Lobbying specifically is to promote a position," he said.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/11/investing/tillerson-exxon-sanctions-russia-iran/

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1 hour ago, jackmormon said:

"ExxonMobil did not lobby against the sanctions," he said multiple times. 

Surprised lawmakers produced lobbying records suggesting otherwise. Democratic Senator Bob Menendez held up lobbying reports showing Exxon spent millions of dollars to lobby Congress about the sanctions placed on Russia as well as the 2010 Iran sanctions. 

For instance, a 2014 lobbying form shows that Exxon lobbied Congress on three different sanctions bills: Russian Aggression Prevention Act of 2014; the Ukraine Freedom Support Act of 2014 and the Sanction Iran, Safeguard America Act of 2014. 

"I know you're new to this, but it's pretty clear...There was lobbying here," said Menendez. 

Menendez noted that lobbying disclosure forms are not needed when companies are simply seeking information or clarification about a bill. "That's not lobbying. Lobbying specifically is to promote a position," he said.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/11/investing/tillerson-exxon-sanctions-russia-iran/

 

Like I said above. Good luck prosecuting that. I'm not saying he's lying or not.

"To my knowledge, Exxon never directly lobbied against sanctions"

Whether it's a lie or the truth, there is nothing to really get after him with.

 

I basically agree with half..

21 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

That was a sticky spot and by far the most awkward part of his confirmation hearing.  I think he should have been honest in saying that his priorities as CEO of Exxon are not the priorities he would have as S.O.S.  Considering that was his only rough patch in nearly 5 hours of bipartisan grilling I am O.K. with it.  He took a pretty hard line with Russia and his comprehensive ideas on sanctions were pretty refreshing.

 

Tillerson should have just said the above, but maybe he felt like it would hurt him.

The sanctions cost his company a billion dollars. Of course the dude would probably try and lobby against it. However he's at the top. The only ones on any paper trails or lobbying information are the hired lobbyists. So even if he did, it would be hard to prove.

 

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