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Trump on sanctioning Russia: "We should move on with our lives"

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Both Trump and Obama have been appalling on the Russian election meddling.

Obama and the democrats are intentionally conflating "hacking" the election.  Polls show half of democrats think the Russians "hacked" the results of the election.  That's false.  What they did was hack Clinton operatives and pass it along and and have a third party release embarrassing and damaging information to Assange.   By politicizing the issue the democrats are helping Putin undermine American democracy, they're doing the Russians work for them.

Trump is just as bad.  He said things like "I love Wikileaks" when we know Assange is anti American and has gotten American operatives and assets killed by exposing them.  And his denial that the Russians meddled is absurd, he's the primary culprit in politicizing intelligence which is the very thing he is complaining about.

 

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2 hours ago, CPslograd said:

Both Trump and Obama have been appalling on the Russian election meddling.

Obama and the democrats are intentionally conflating "hacking" the election.  Polls show half of democrats think the Russians "hacked" the results of the election.  That's false.  What they did was hack Clinton operatives and pass it along and and have a third party release embarrassing and damaging information to Assange.   By politicizing the issue the democrats are helping Putin undermine American democracy, they're doing the Russians work for them.

Trump is just as bad.  He said things like "I love Wikileaks" when we know Assange is anti American and has gotten American operatives and assets killed by exposing them.  And his denial that the Russians meddled is absurd, he's the primary culprit in politicizing intelligence which is the very thing he is complaining about.

 

Excellent summary, I've seen a lot of dems saying things like they changed votes in Michigan and Wisconsin which seems like bullshit but the way Trump has worshipped Assange and Putin is sickening. The only thing worse is McConnell and his obstruction to an independent investigation. 

I can't sing and I can't dance but I can make romance - Macho Man Randy Savage

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28 minutes ago, just_chris said:

Excellent summary, I've seen a lot of dems saying things like they changed votes in Michigan and Wisconsin which seems like bullshit but the way Trump has worshipped Assange and Putin is sickening. The only thing worse is McConnell and his obstruction to an independent investigation. 

I thought McConnell supported a congressional investigation?

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Russia did not hack election results.

 

They did attempt to influence voters and swing the election. A foreign government attempted to influence our elections and that SHOULD bug the shit out of every American.

 

I don't  believe it changed the results. People not bothering to vote are why the results ended up as they did. It still SHOULD be a huge concern about what Russia tried to do and steps should be taken to prevent ANY foreign influence.

One of the Final Five..........

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Guest RoscoesDad
2 hours ago, mysfit said:

Russia did not hack election results.

 

They did attempt to influence voters and swing the election. A foreign government attempted to influence our elections and that SHOULD bug the shit out of every American.

 

I don't  believe it changed the results. People not bothering to vote are why the results ended up as they did. It still SHOULD be a huge concern about what Russia tried to do and steps should be taken to prevent ANY foreign influence.

I've only heard about the hacking of actual voting poll machines a few times. I think a few Dems came out with this angle awhile ago, but it is absolutely NOT the focus of this investigation.  See, this is how the right wing continues to create strawman arguments to muck up the actual point in an effort to create a false narrative that nobody is talking about except for them.  

Almost all of this centers around the release of the hacked material for misinformation and propaganda reasons to influence voters decisions.  However, the effect of this Russian propaganda campaign will never be able to be quantified.  The $60 million dollar question is - was Trump and/or his campaign aware of or complicit with Russia or Assange.  And I've gotta say, I am more than suspicious at this point.  

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14 minutes ago, jackmormon said:

The Russians also hacked voter registration databases in Illinois and Arizona.

No, no, no - get your talking points straight.

The election was hacked in Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania, giving Trump the electoral college victory. 

Too bad Barry doesn't seem as concerned with the actual Chinese hacking of the OPM:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cybersecurity-usa-idUSKCN0PJ2M420150709

Where are all the expelled Chinese diplomats?

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1 hour ago, RoscoesDad said:

I've only heard about the hacking of actual voting poll machines a few times. I think a few Dems came out with this angle awhile ago, but it is absolutely NOT the focus of this investigation.  See, this is how the right wing continues to create strawman arguments to muck up the actual point in an effort to create a false narrative that nobody is talking about except for them.  

Almost all of this centers around the release of the hacked material for misinformation and propaganda reasons to influence voters decisions.  However, the effect of this Russian propaganda campaign will never be able to be quantified.  The $60 million dollar question is - was Trump and/or his campaign aware of or complicit with Russia or Assange.  And I've gotta say, I am more than suspicious at this point.  

Agree, the mob doesn't seem to be able to comprehend the distinction between 'influence' and 'hacking votes". Both are threats to free and fair elections in a free society.

 

I believe Trump and co knew full well what was going on. Didn't he once exhort the leakers to get into Hillary's emails? But his rabid followers and the spineless GOP only care about one thing: Being in power. To hell with all the rest. Elections have consequences, and there's no going back from this one. The rich will get richer, the environment and ecosystems will be irreversibly damaged, the average person will be left with unimaginable debt and we'll get to pay for that wall too.

One of the Final Five..........

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14 hours ago, CPslograd said:

I thought McConnell supported a congressional investigation?

Graham and McCain have been very vocal, McConnell is now Trump's puppet since he put McConnell's wife into his cabinet. She's now secretary of transportation. As far as I've seen McConnell has attempted to stump McCain and Graham's efforts. 

I can't sing and I can't dance but I can make romance - Macho Man Randy Savage

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Guest RoscoesDad

And as most people with a functioning brain already knew, it now is confirmed that Putin ordered the hacking to denigrate Clinton in efforts to support Trump.  

Now that the obvious is out of the way, I look forward to seeing how long it takes to have the fact that Lady Hands and his campaign was either aware of this and actively used this propaganda during their campaign.  Or even worse, they were working in cahoots with Russia/Assange.  I am guessing the latter.  Something tells me that this goldmine of propaganda didn't just fall into their lap by happenstance.  And that's gonna be fun to watch.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/breaking-report-says-vladimir-putin-directly-ordered-effort-to-influence-election/ 

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1 hour ago, RoscoesDad said:

And as most people with a functioning brain already knew, it now is confirmed that Putin ordered the hacking to denigrate Clinton in efforts to support Trump.  

Now that the obvious is out of the way, I look forward to seeing how long it takes to have the fact that Lady Hands and his campaign was either aware of this and actively used this propaganda during their campaign.  Or even worse, they were working in cahoots with Russia/Assange.  I am guessing the latter.  Something tells me that this goldmine of propaganda didn't just fall into their lap by happenstance.  And that's gonna be fun to watch.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/breaking-report-says-vladimir-putin-directly-ordered-effort-to-influence-election/ 

Given the fact that the Trump campaign had contact with the Russian government throughout, being in cahoots is not an outrageous claim.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/moscow-had-contacts-with-trump-team-during-campaign-russian-diplomat-says/2016/11/10/28fb82fa-a73d-11e6-9bd6-184ab22d218e_story.html?utm_term=.eeb6a682640f

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2 hours ago, just_chris said:

Graham and McCain have been very vocal, McConnell is now Trump's puppet since he put McConnell's wife into his cabinet. She's now secretary of transportation. As far as I've seen McConnell has attempted to stump McCain and Graham's efforts. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/us/politics/mcconnell-supports-inquiry-of-russian-hacking-during-election.html?_r=0   

That was early on, unless something has changed.  There may be some disagreement about what form the investigation takes, but don't forget the democrats are playing politics too.

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2 hours ago, CPslograd said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/us/politics/mcconnell-supports-inquiry-of-russian-hacking-during-election.html?_r=0   

That was early on, unless something has changed.  There may be some disagreement about what form the investigation takes, but don't forget the democrats are playing politics too.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/mcconnell-rejects-push-select-committee-probe-russian-hacking/

But I agree, it's all politics and we all lose because of it 

I can't sing and I can't dance but I can make romance - Macho Man Randy Savage

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