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mugtang

Hispanic Restaurant Owner hosted Trump in Vegas

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13 hours ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

 

Why does he have an extreme view on border security? Because he believes or at least appeals to those who believe that Mexicans generally, not just illegal immigrants, are more prone to criminality. This is a racist view.

People like you don't get it at all. My parents are naturalized citizens so call me a racist if it makes you feel better. It's about rule of law. It took my parents nearly a decade to go through the naturalization process. When you enter the country illegally, by definition, you're committing a crime. If you have laws, enforce them. If you don't want to enforce them, change the law and make it open borders, I don't care. For the record, I take care of many illegal immigrants and find most of them hard working and grateful people, actually much more grateful for their care than most citizen indigent patients.

Politics seems to actually get in the way of obvious solutions such as a guest worker program. We need unskilled labor as well as engineers. Obviously we need border security to keep criminals and terrorists out. In the immortal words of Dennis Miller, we welcome everyone, just sign the guestbook.

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16 hours ago, BestintheWest said:

 

It will of course be low. People in the Southwest are very loyal to Mexico and their heritage. Any slander will push them away.

You say something enough times it becomes true. It went from an out of context statement to Trump is a Nazi racist and hates mexicans. From media headline to stone cold fact.

Just a point of clarification in discussing Mexican heritage and the Latino vote. Not all Latinos are from Mexico. Some from central and South America actually hate Mexico.

The problem with Trump's statement though, is it is not anti-Mexican, it is anti-immigrant. That impacts all Latinos. At least he casts a broad net.

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3 hours ago, NMpackalum said:

People like you don't get it at all. My parents are naturalized citizens so call me a racist if it makes you feel better. It's about rule of law. It took my parents nearly a decade to go through the naturalization process. When you enter the country illegally, by definition, you're committing a crime. If you have laws, enforce them. If you don't want to enforce them, change the law and make it open borders, I don't care. For the record, I take care of many illegal immigrants and find most of them hard working and grateful people, actually much more grateful for their care than most citizen indigent patients.

Politics seems to actually get in the way of obvious solutions such as a guest worker program. We need unskilled labor as well as engineers. Obviously we need border security to keep criminals and terrorists out. In the immortal words of Dennis Miller, we welcome everyone, just sign the guestbook.

I've just illustrated that through his interaction with Judge Curiel and the issues he chooses to highlight regarding illegal immigrants that Trump is racist or appealing to racists. There are non-racist objections to illegal immigration, but he doesn't represent those strains. Maybe you do, but he doesn't.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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4 hours ago, NMpackalum said:

People like you don't get it at all. My parents are naturalized citizens so call me a racist if it makes you feel better. It's about rule of law. It took my parents nearly a decade to go through the naturalization process. When you enter the country illegally, by definition, you're committing a crime. If you have laws, enforce them. If you don't want to enforce them, change the law and make it open borders, I don't care. For the record, I take care of many illegal immigrants and find most of them hard working and grateful people, actually much more grateful for their care than most citizen indigent patients.

Politics seems to actually get in the way of obvious solutions such as a guest worker program. We need unskilled labor as well as engineers. Obviously we need border security to keep criminals and terrorists out. In the immortal words of Dennis Miller, we welcome everyone, just sign the guestbook.

That all sounds pretty great.  Really, I think the majority of us would basically agree with all of this this.  Where it gets a little sketchy though is what we do with the illegal immigrants that are already here.  You must see that rounding them up and ejecting them is fraught with its own serious problems. Lives and families, many of which are not the "offenders", and most of which are not committing serious crimes, get ripped apart in order to feel a sense of justice. There's also pretty significant economic implications in doing something like that. This country is entangled with illegal immigration and we have to have practical solutions. I can see how people like you and your parents must be frustrated after doing things the right way but this just isn't a simple "right or wrong" issue in the end.

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11 hours ago, toonkee said:

That all sounds pretty great.  Really, I think the majority of us would basically agree with all of this this.  Where it gets a little sketchy though is what we do with the illegal immigrants that are already here.  You must see that rounding them up and ejecting them is fraught with its own serious problems. Lives and families, many of which are not the "offenders", and most of which are not committing serious crimes, get ripped apart in order to feel a sense of justice. There's also pretty significant economic implications in doing something like that. This country is entangled with illegal immigration and we have to have practical solutions. I can see how people like you and your parents must be frustrated after doing things the right way but this just isn't a simple "right or wrong" issue in the end.

I still find it laughable that everyone wants to scapegoat the illegal who comes here to better their life or escape serious things such as the drug cartels yet if you demonize the rich white guy who hires the illegals you're a socialist or a commie. 

I can't sing and I can't dance but I can make romance - Macho Man Randy Savage

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5 minutes ago, just_chris said:

I still find it laughable that everyone wants to scapegoat the illegal who comes here to better their life or escape serious things such as the drug cartels yet if you demonize the rich white guy who hires the illegals you're a socialist or a commie. 

I don't think that's a valid take.  The guys that demonize illegals tend to demonize the rich white guys who hire illegals too.

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Just now, CPslograd said:

I don't think that's a valid take.  The guys that demonize illegals tend to demonize the rich white guys who hire illegals too.

:lol: Wut

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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7 minutes ago, CPslograd said:

I don't think that's a valid take.  The guys that demonize illegals tend to demonize the rich white guys who hire illegals too.

To quote an infamous poster here "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA" 

I can't sing and I can't dance but I can make romance - Macho Man Randy Savage

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21 hours ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

I've just illustrated that through his interaction with Judge Curiel and the issues he chooses to highlight regarding illegal immigrants that Trump is racist or appealing to racists. There are non-racist objections to illegal immigration, but he doesn't represent those strains. Maybe you do, but he doesn't.

You wrote that Trump appeals to people who think that Mexicans not illegal aliens are more prone to criminality and that they are racist. That's a broad generalized statement. In different times they would have been Chinese, Italian or Irish. From a socioeconomic perspective it is likely that the immigrant class is likely prone to more criminal activity until they are integrated into society. There probably are some who fall into your vision of an immigration racist but I would venture to say those people are happy to be dealing with Mexicans than immigrant Syrians, Iraqis and Afghanis, the vast majority who have no interest in integrating into western society.

With respect to mass deportation, I would venture to say the majority feel about that the same way about it as the wall. Nice slogan but a waste of time and resources. I do think it makes sense to tax out of country wire transfers that Trump has proposed. If you make money in the US, some of it should stay here. You have to start somewhere, we can't afford to keep paying for services and have a security infrastructure that plays catch and release. Why bother with borders at all then. What do they say, "good fences make good neighbors " figuratively of course.

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16 minutes ago, NMpackalum said:

You wrote that Trump appeals to people who think that Mexicans not illegal aliens are more prone to criminality and that they are racist. That's a broad generalized statement. In different times they would have been Chinese, Italian or Irish. From a socioeconomic perspective it is likely that the immigrant class is likely prone to more criminal activity until they are integrated into society. There probably are some who fall into your vision of an immigration racist but I would venture to say those people are happy to be dealing with Mexicans than immigrant Syrians, Iraqis and Afghanis, the vast majority who have no interest in integrating into western society.

With respect to mass deportation, I would venture to say the majority feel about that the same way about it as the wall. Nice slogan but a waste of time and resources. I do think it makes sense to tax out of country wire transfers that Trump has proposed. If you make money in the US, some of it should stay here. You have to start somewhere, we can't afford to keep paying for services and have a security infrastructure that plays catch and release. Why bother with borders at all then. What do they say, "good fences make good neighbors " figuratively of course.

Except for illegal immigrants are actually less likely to commit crime than ordinary citizens. It's a demagogic lie that you and your friends bought hook line and sinker. https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states

 

Islamophobia is a different issue. I personally know many Muslim immigrants and children of Muskim immigrants, and they want to integrate as much as anyone else. They just don't want to lose all of their traditions too. Another demagogic lie based on fear of the unknown. 

 

Trump appeals to racists. Many of his supporters are bigoted: this is an assertion that can be backed by data. I've posted numerous studies on here showing that Trump has cornered the market on these people. There's really no debate.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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3 hours ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

Except for illegal immigrants are actually less likely to commit crime than ordinary citizens. It's a demagogic lie that you and your friends bought hook line and sinker. https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states

 

Islamophobia is a different issue. I personally know many Muslim immigrants and children of Muskim immigrants, and they want to integrate as much as anyone else. They just don't want to lose all of their traditions too. Another demagogic lie based on fear of the unknown. 

 

Trump appeals to racists. Many of his supporters are bigoted: this is an assertion that can be backed by data. I've posted numerous studies on here showing that Trump has cornered the market on these people. There's really no debate.

You know nothing about me and my friends. It seems easy for you to call people racists and demagogues when you don't agree. You have a right to your opinion and supporting data just like others do. That's the difference between you and your friends and me. I respect the fact that others have reasonable opinions without resorting to name calling and accusations. I'm no Trump supporter but here's a small Politifact for you.http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/sep/02/sean-hannity/sean-hannity-says-illegal-immigrants-account-75-pe/   Whereas I don't  think this says everything about immigration statistics or that they even mean anything, you have to consider that your supporting study likely underestimates unreported crimes against the immigrants themselves for obvious reasons. I don't know what you do for a living, but you can use the same statistics support opposite sides of the debate. People on the other side didn't suddenly get stupid or racist or ignorant. The reasoning skills that allowed them to be doctors , lawyers, professionals didn't suddenly abandon them. Quit being so condescending. 

Also brush up on your reading comprehension. I stated that based on their socioeconomic class, (not ethnicity or legal status) immigrants are more prone to criminality. Statistically they have a per capita median income of $36k, in the poverty level which statistically has double the amount of crimes compared to higher socioeconomic classes.

Many of Trumps supporters are probably bigots. I suppose Clinton's supporters are all intelligent, morally pure humanitarians.

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23 minutes ago, NMpackalum said:

You know nothing about me and my friends. It seems easy for you to call people racists and demagogues when you don't agree. You have a right to your opinion and supporting data just like others do. That's the difference between you and your friends and me. I respect the fact that others have reasonable opinions without resorting to name calling and accusations. I'm no Trump supporter but here's a small Politifact for you.http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/sep/02/sean-hannity/sean-hannity-says-illegal-immigrants-account-75-pe/   Whereas I don't  think this says everything about immigration statistics or that they even mean anything, you have to consider that your supporting study likely underestimates unreported crimes against the immigrants themselves for obvious reasons. I don't know what you do for a living, but you can use the same statistics support opposite sides of the debate. People on the other side didn't suddenly get stupid or racist or ignorant. The reasoning skills that allowed them to be doctors , lawyers, professionals didn't suddenly abandon them. Quit being so condescending.

Many of Trumps supporters are probably bigots. I suppose Clinton's supporters are all intelligent, morally pure humanitarians.

Completely distorted stats based on using federal agencies only. Hannity drawing conclusions on the basis, for instance, of 91 convictions on murder charges brought by the federal government in 2015 is bogus. Of course aliens will be overrepresented due to the nature of federal jurisdiction. There were almost 16K murders in 2015.

From your own posted link: "Hannity’s chart presents percentages of unauthorized immigrants convicted of selected federal crimes--not exploring the residency statuses of the far greater number of U.S. residents prosecuted by state and local authorities."

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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2 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

Completely distorted stats based on using federal agencies only. Hannity drawing conclusions on the basis, for instance, of 91 convictions on murder charges brought by the federal government in 2015 is bogus. Of course aliens will be overrepresented due to the nature of federal jurisdiction. There were almost 16K murders in 2015.

From your own posted link: "Hannity’s chart presents percentages of unauthorized immigrants convicted of selected federal crimes--not exploring the residency statuses of the far greater number of U.S. residents prosecuted by state and local authorities."

The comparison in veracity and the sheer amount of evidence on my side of the argument to his is laughable.

 

All "facts" aren't created equal. 

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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14 hours ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

:lol: Wut

Honestly you don't know what the hell you are talking about half the time.

i could explain it to you but I don't think you are able to interpret information that doesn't jive with your mantra, so it would be a waste of time.

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14 hours ago, just_chris said:

To quote an infamous poster here "HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA" 

Alright genius.   Why do you think there was such a civil war on the right regarding immigration?

The people who want the wall aren't the chamber of commerce republicans.  It's the phuck the establishment conservatives.  The phuck the establishment conservatives aren't pro big business or "rich white guy".  They're the blue collar populists.

You just spewed a talking point that isn't based in reality.  

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51 minutes ago, CPslograd said:

Honestly you don't know what the hell you are talking about half the time.

i could explain it to you but I don't think you are able to interpret information that doesn't jive with your mantra, so it would be a waste of time.

Where has Trump demonized those who hire illegal labor? And if so, did he call them prone to criminality based on their race? I'm interested to see if you can find remotely similar rhetoric.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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6 hours ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

Except for illegal immigrants are actually less likely to commit crime than ordinary citizens. It's a demagogic lie that you and your friends bought hook line and sinker. https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states

 

Islamophobia is a different issue. I personally know many Muslim immigrants and children of Muskim immigrants, and they want to integrate as much as anyone else. They just don't want to lose all of their traditions too. Another demagogic lie based on fear of the unknown. 

 

Trump appeals to racists. Many of his supporters are bigoted: this is an assertion that can be backed by data. I've posted numerous studies on here showing that Trump has cornered the market on these people. There's really no debate.

I am sure you personally know many good Muslim immigrants.  So do I.  However Islam is plague.  Don't like it.  Call me a bigot.  It is a disgusting ideology and they are committing crimes in Europe at a rate far higher than any other demographic.  They have created states within states across Europe where dangerous thinking that has no place in the world is prevalent.  77 % of rapes are commited by 2% of the population in Sweeden.  Don't like it.  The world would be a better place without Islam.

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