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roughrider

OT-new Copa America thread-question

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2 minutes ago, masterfrog said:

I attribute the step back to a lot of Americans choosing to play in the MLS.  They need to be playing in Europe, or at least in the Mexican League.

Which European league do you think would be the best for US players to play in as far as actually getting on the pitch and developing their skills?

It might still help if they rode the pine and "learned" somewhere but probably not as much as if they actually got meaningful playing time. 'Know what I mean?

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Just now, TheBigAwesome said:

Which European league do you think would be the best for US players to play in as far as actually getting on the pitch and developing their skills?

It might still help if they rode the pine and "learned" somewhere but probably not as much as if they actually got meaningful playing time. 'Know what I mean?

But that's just it, getting regular playing time doesn't seem to be helping.  In fact, it seems to be hurting.

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Just now, masterfrog said:

But that's just it, getting regular playing time doesn't seem to be helping.  In fact, it seems to be hurting.

So are you thinking that it'd be more beneficial to "learn" from the bench of say a top team in the EPL rather than getting significant playing time at a middle team in the Bundesliga?

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7 minutes ago, TheBigAwesome said:

So are you thinking that it'd be more beneficial to "learn" from the bench of say a top team in the EPL rather than getting significant playing time at a middle team in the Bundesliga?

Yes, I think it is beneficial to play with the best players in the world, even if that only comes in practice.  In the MLS, they can play with some of the best names in the world, but that doesn't translate into playing against the best.  The league lacks a lot of depth and the players that could benefit most from competition don't get any.  If they want to stay close to home, they could still improve their game if they played in Mexico.

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3 hours ago, TheBigAwesome said:

You remember wrong.

US has never been the better squad.

 

Really???   How do you explain the USMNT Winning the Gold Cup over Mex in:

2002 - (Mex didn't place)

2005 - (Mex didn't place)

2007 - (Mex:  2nd Place)

2013 - (Mex: lost in Semi-Finals)

 

...if the "US has never been the better squad?"

 

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1 minute ago, GoState99755 said:

 

Really???   How do you explain the USMNT Winning the Gold Cup over Mex in:

2002 - (Mex didn't place)

2005 - (Mex didn't place)

2007 - (Mex:  2nd Place)

2013 - (Mex: lost in Semi-Finals)

 

...if the "US has never been the better squad?

 

Pretty much what I recall.  In that 2013 game they looked disorganized and lazy, at best.  The US team was playing pretty well then.

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I don't think you can say that the US was ever consistently "better" than Mexico. There was definitely a time in the 2000's when we were getting the better of them in most matches, but remember that most of the matches that counted, and all of the ones that didn't, were played in the US. The ones that really counted were usually played in frigid conditions in Columbus, Ohio. The record in Mexico is hugely in their favor. IIRC we've beaten them once at Azteca and drew once. The high point for us was definitely the 2002 World Cup in the Round of 16.

We used to really frustrate them by sitting back and absorbing pressure and then striking with quick counterattacks. We were also really good at getting under the skin of their important players. I admit that five years ago or so, with the players they had coming up, I thought we were in for a long decade. It hasn't been quite that bad, but I think their is a real quality gap between the two teams now in their favor.

I know some of you are probably tired of hearing me say this, but I don't see the quality in the younger US players that some of you do, and I believe our recent performance in U-17 and U-21 competitions backs up what I say. Young players need to go abroad early and often. 

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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4 hours ago, TheBigAwesome said:

I didn't say Mexico blasted anyone. I said that I remember Mexico playing Brazil and/or Argentina well, they certainly weren't out-classed. And many back then thought/were saying that the US would have a chance against the better South American teams (Brazil/Argentina) because the US had just beaten Mexico and Mexico played Brazil/Argentina almost straight up but then the US got blasted by one of the South American teams.

I remember thinking that was bullshit because I knew that the US just matches up well against Mexico and that they were going to get exposed. And they were. The US was never as good as some people remember/wanted them to have been.

 

The US went to the same WC round as Mexico

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1 hour ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

 

I know some of you are probably tired of hearing me say this, but I don't see the quality in the younger US players that some of you do, and I believe our recent performance in U-17 and U-21 competitions backs up what I say. Young players need to go abroad early and often. 

 

You can't put too much stock in those tourney's a large majority of those players never play meaningful minutes for the senior team. The US has some very talented younger players especially defensively you have guys like Yedlin and Brooks who are already contributing and guys who will soon be breaking through like Carter-Vickers, Palmer-Brown, Miazga, and Parker. The US is on the cusp of a golden generation for defenders 

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DAMN...where was this team -vs- Colombia Friday???

We couldn't have asked for a better 1/2-half from the USMNT.

 

¡¡¡ VIVA los EEUU !!!

 

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14 hours ago, TheBigAwesome said:

Okay.

To me, it's a matter of "styles make fights" (to use a boxing analogy) and as you mentioned, a swapping out of the "old guard" and "new guard" for Mexico. The new guys were young and inexperienced and the old guys were, well, old. And the two groups didn't have good chemistry between them so they played accordingly.

But as far as pure talent, Mexico has always been far more talented than any US squad. The relative success of the US was more a matter of good timing and a good style match-up than anything.

 

Why is the US a "bad matchup" for Mexico? 

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3 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Why is the US a "bad matchup" for Mexico? 

The length and physical play of the US gives them problems but mostly because it's the USMNT's "Super Bowl" whenever they play Mexico.

Plus, as Old SD Dude pointed out, the US always play at home (usually in frigid conditions in Columbus) in games that really count.

As an aside, I think I saw that the temp was 62 degrees yesterday when the US played Costa Rica on US soil...there seems to be a pattern for when the US plays better. I guess the USMNT should try to schedule all tournaments against Latin American teams in Chicago or Columbus when the temps drop.

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3 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Why is the US a "bad matchup" for Mexico? 

Traditional the US strategy against Mexico was to defend deep and allow Mexico a lot of possession. This is pretty typical anytime a team is less technically skilled than their opponent. If we picked up a goal all the better. The attacking team can get frustrated, and the Mexicans certainly did for a long time in the 2000s. Their leaders like Blanco, Rafa Marquez (remember him getting a straight red for literally knocking out Cobi Jones) and Borghetti especially so. Let's face it, many Mexicans resent the power of the US and the history between the two countries. They have a saying - "Poor Mexico, so far from God, so close to the US."  The US getting results against Mexico really got into their head. El Tri started to really play tight against the US, the fans were really down on team and it sort of spiraled.

I don't think the current Mexican players are affected nearly as much. 

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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Paraguay isn't going to be a push over for the US.  They really picked up their play in the 2nd-Half v. Colombia.  The Red-White-&-Blue put a scare into El Amarillo late, until Oscar Romero was feeling he was upstaged  by Watson in their previous game against Costa Rica & picked up a Red Card of his own.

 

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4 minutes ago, GoState99755 said:

 

Paraguay isn't going to be a push over for the US.  They really picked up their play in the 2nd-Half v. Colombia.  The Red-White-&-Blue put a scare into El Amarillo late, until Oscar Romero was feeling he was upstaged  by Watson in their previous game against Costa Rica & picked up a Red Card of his own.

 

Should be a fun one.

Winner moves on (or a tie for the US).

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6 minutes ago, TheBigAwesome said:

Should be a fun one.

Winner moves on (or a tie for the US).

 

It should be real interesting to see which Brazilian team shows up today.  I'm guessing we'll end up w/the winner of Group-B.

Peru already has 3-pts in Group-B & Ecuador has stepped up it's game recently.

 

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In the last 20 years the U.S. Has played 4 games against Mexico in Columbus; two of those were in September, two in february. Those two games in February were the only cold weather US-Mexico games in that time frame. All other games played in cold weather cities were played between April and September. 

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Brooks was a freaking beast tonight. Guzan was similarly beast like when called upon as well. Great effort by the US to play a man down for pretty much the entire second half.

The ref was completely +++++ing worthless, and even allowed a +++++wit Paraguayan coach to play the +++++ing ball and get away with just getting a warning. It's gonna suck not having Yedlin in the next game though... just reckless play on his part leading to those two yellows. 

Costa Rica is certainly surprising with the dominating performance against Colombia right now. But I'll certainly take a likely match against Peru rather than one against Brazil. 

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1 minute ago, retrofade said:

Brooks was a freaking beast tonight. Guzan was similarly beast like when called upon as well. Great effort by the US to play a man down for pretty much the entire second half.

The ref was completely +++++ing worthless, and even allowed a +++++wit Paraguayan coach to play the +++++ing ball and get away with just getting a warning. It's gonna suck not having Yedlin in the next game though... just reckless play on his part leading to those two yellows. 

Costa Rica is certainly surprising with the dominating performance against Colombia right now. But I'll certainly take a likely match against Peru rather than one against Brazil. 

and now Colombia nets a goal to make it 3-2... c'mon Costa Rica, hold it together for another 20 minutes.

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