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thelawlorfaithful

GOP Debate Round 2

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Carson would be a great candidate....for Surgeon General.

IMO....not if he's unwilling to say, unequivocally, that there's no linkage whatsoever between vaccines and autism.

It was a question that came up towards the end of the debate when he was asked to weigh in on Trump's anti-vaccination statements and he hedged significantly. Agreeing that there's no reason not to space out vaccinations a little bit just to be on the safe side where autism is concerned when, as a doctor, he knows for a fact that the autism link is a load of horse phooey. There IS a reason. Spacing out vaccinations when there's no medical reason to do so leaves babies vulnerable to catching the disease that vaccinations protect against longer.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

I get that he's trying not to ruffle feathers or something but he was asked his opinion, as a medical doctor, on a televised debate that was being watched by millions of millions of people about a very dangerous medical issue of parents skipping vaccinating their kids and wasn't willing to be unequivocal in standing up to Trump's conspiracy mongering.

He was in a tough spot but that's a really important question he got asked.

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Perhaps - That's a quiet out of the spot light job.

If he was more well versed on current foreign policy issues and was a bit less religious I'd be on the Carson bandwagon.  

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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Fiorina, Rubio and Paul really stood out to me.  I like Kasich also.  I liked Carson initially but it's become obvious he's in over his head.   

Sounds like the cream is rising to the top. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Pretty boring, poorly moderated, and no talk about anything of substance frankly.

What, you didn't enjoy 10 out of 11 people putting half the world on notice that America is coming for blood?

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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What, you didn't enjoy 10 out of 11 people putting half the world on notice that America is coming for blood?

Just nuts. Let me see. Go to war with Iran. Most believe the world is 6000 years old. Do not believe in evolution. Thinks there is war on Christianity. Wants to establish Christian sharia while banning Islamic sharia. Is there difference? Believe Obama is a Muslim. Taking away citizenship from babies born in the US. Also vaccines are bad.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-declines-to-correct-man-who-says-obama-is-muslim/ar-AAeqZGZ?ocid=spartandhp

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/immigrants-fight-texas-birth-certificate-rules/ar-AAeq5pg?ocid=spartandhp

 

On the other side we have Clinton who is corrupt as hell.

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Fiorina, Rubio and Paul really stood out to me.  I like Kasich also.  I liked Carson initially but it's become obvious he's in over his head.   

Sounds like the cream is rising to the top. 

Unfortunately the GOP isn't going to nominate any of these four. The party has become a joke - the fact that Trump is even still in the race is enough evidence that a good number of Republicans respond to absurd rhetoric over substance.

That all being said, there is a sick part of me that would enjoy a Trump vs Biden debate - would be a disaster for the country but talk about pure comedy. 

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Just nuts. Let me see. Go to war with Iran. Most believe the world is 6000 years old. Do not believe in evolution. Thinks there is war on Christianity. Wants to establish Christian sharia while banning Islamic sharia. Is there difference? Believe Obama is a Muslim. Taking away citizenship from babies born in the US. Also vaccines are bad.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-declines-to-correct-man-who-says-obama-is-muslim/ar-AAeqZGZ?ocid=spartandhp

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/immigrants-fight-texas-birth-certificate-rules/ar-AAeq5pg?ocid=spartandhp

 

On the other side we have Clinton who is corrupt as hell.

From your second link, we have "undocumented" immigrants suing Texas to make it easier to get birth certificates for their US-born children so they can apply for Medicaid? I thought illegals couldn't get benefits.  

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Rand Paul reminded Independents and even some Democrats that he has some likable qualities and positions. The last few months haven't been good for him as he's abandoned a fair number of his libertarian positions to try and expand his appeal to the Republican primary electorate. His dad's old stances, while popular and certainly gained him a cult following, probably topped out at getting about 15% of the Republican primary voters which isn't enough to win. I liked his answers on Iraq, on medical and recreational marijuana and even on criminal justice reform.

Marco Rubio had a good night simply by reminding people he existed. He faded into the background a lot in the first debate and while I haven't yet looked him up on substance, his delivery was much improved this time around. Except for the water bottle joke. Calling attention to your biggest bombing on a national stage right at the outset and in a very awkward way isn't a good strategy in my book.

Fiorina stood out for a lot of people and a lot of people are declaring her the winner of the debate. But if you actually look up a lot of the things she said, her actual performance was to do an exceptional job delivering false information.

On Planned Parenthood: Specifically this line.

"As regards Planned Parenthood, anyone who has watched this videotape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain. This is about the character of our nation, and if we will not stand up in and force President Obama to veto this bill, shame on us."

This scene, even in the highly edited and completely debunked tapes on Planned Parenthood (a real journalist really should point out at some point those tapes are BS...or at least one of the 15 or so different GOP contenders should acknowledge it since we apparently are heading for a government shutdown over a hoax) never happened. She may as well have come up with a way to kill the fire breathing dragon who is currently eating your dog on your back lawn.

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9342165/carly-fiorina-planned-parenthood\

On Russia and Immigration:http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9342761/carly-fiorina-debate

The Sixth Fleet is already huge, and it's hard to say why adding to its capabilities would intimidate Putin — after all, America has enough nuclear weapons pointed at Russia to level the country thousands of times over. Her proposal for more military exercises in the Baltics seemed odd in light of the fact that President Obama is already conducting military exercises in the Baltics. And the US already has around 40,000 troops stationed in Germany, so it's hard to say what good "a few thousand" more would do. And pushing on a missile defense system in Poland is a very long-term solution to a very current problem. In total, Fiorina's laundry list of proposals sure sounded like a plan, but on inspection, it's hard to see why any of them would convince Putin to change course.

Her immigration answer was also odd to anyone who knew the issue's recent history. It's true Obama didn't immediately push immigration reform when he took office, but it was his top priority after reelection, and he spent a solid year trying to make the Senate's comprehensive immigration-reform bill — the one crafted, in part, by Sen. Marco Rubio— into law. That legislation was stopped by Republicans in the House of Representatives, not by the Democrat in the White House. "Send me a comprehensive immigration reform bill in the next few months," Obama begged in 2013, "and I will sign it right away."

On Climate Change:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/09/carly-fiorinas-climate-position-not-intelligent.html

 

Why is the criticism over Fiorina's comments about an edited tape? Is it not true that it happens? What production video on CNN, MSN or Fox isn't edited? No one is claiming that those things don't happen, just that an anti abortion group edited a video with excerpts from several sources. The critics are deflecting, arguing about the package not the substance.  I deal with Planned Parenthood daily and I don't think that the organization should be defunded but the abortion services and preventative care funding should be separate. There are plenty of donors for the abortion services. Community Health clinics like Planned Parenthood are reimbursed at a much higher rate than private docs that provide more comprehensive services that they refer to. You actually wouldn't need community health clinics if you paid private docs what you (feds) paid Planned Parenthood.

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Why is the criticism over Fiorina's comments about an edited tape? Is it not true that it happens? What production video on CNN, MSN or Fox isn't edited? No one is claiming that those things don't happen, just that an anti abortion group edited a video with excerpts from several sources. The critics are deflecting, arguing about the package not the substance.  I deal with Planned Parenthood daily and I don't think that the organization should be defunded but the abortion services and preventative care funding should be separate. There are plenty of donors for the abortion services. Community Health clinics like Planned Parenthood are reimbursed at a much higher rate than private docs that provide more comprehensive services that they refer to. You actually wouldn't need community health clinics if you paid private docs what you (feds) paid Planned Parenthood.

Cause this is what we do on this board.  We fight rhetoric with rhetoric.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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Why is the criticism over Fiorina's comments about an edited tape? Is it not true that it happens? What production video on CNN, MSN or Fox isn't edited? No one is claiming that those things don't happen, just that an anti abortion group edited a video with excerpts from several sources. The critics are deflecting, arguing about the package not the substance.  I deal with Planned Parenthood daily and I don't think that the organization should be defunded but the abortion services and preventative care funding should be separate. There are plenty of donors for the abortion services. Community Health clinics like Planned Parenthood are reimbursed at a much higher rate than private docs that provide more comprehensive services that they refer to. You actually wouldn't need community health clinics if you paid private docs what you (feds) paid Planned Parenthood.

The criticism is that the story that Fiorina told is an out and out lie. In 12 full hours of tape, it did not happen. Not in the massively misleading and selectively edited version. Not in the full 12 hour unedited version.

She completely made up the entire thing to demonize Planned Parenthood. Should we not criticize outright lies before millions and millions of people? Or do the ends justify the means? Personally I think the truth actually matters.Going beyond the outright full lie Carly told to the issue of edited video, when news organizations edit tapes, they're supposed to not destroy the context or create a version that badly misleads.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/08/27/report-center-medical-progress-videos-deceptively-edited-lack-credibility/

The Center for Medical Progress, the anti-choice front group behind a series of videos spreading misinformation about Planned Parenthood, deceptively edited footage in “undercover” videos to alter the meaning of dialogue and removed significant portions of footage the organization claimed were “full footage,” according to an analysis by an independent research company.

“A thorough review of these videos in consultation with qualified experts found that they do not present a complete or accurate record of the events they purport to depict,” Glenn Simpson, a partner at the research firm Fusion GPS, wrote in a report.

I bet money that if I edited enough tapes selectively enough I could produce one that has Mike Huckabee gleefully talking about how much he likes butt sex and how eager he is to get gay married but it sure wouldn't represent reality on that subject.

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The criticism is that the story that Fiorina told is an out and out lie. In 12 full hours of tape, it did not happen. Not in the massively misleading and selectively edited version. Not in the full 12 hour unedited version.

She completely made up the entire thing to demonize Planned Parenthood. Should we not criticize outright lies before millions and millions of people? Or do the ends justify the means? Personally I think the truth actually matters.Going beyond the outright full lie Carly told to the issue of edited video, when news organizations edit tapes, they're supposed to not destroy the context or create a version that badly misleads.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/08/27/report-center-medical-progress-videos-deceptively-edited-lack-credibility/

The Center for Medical Progress, the anti-choice front group behind a series of videos spreading misinformation about Planned Parenthood, deceptively edited footage in “undercover” videos to alter the meaning of dialogue and removed significant portions of footage the organization claimed were “full footage,” according to an analysis by an independent research company.

“A thorough review of these videos in consultation with qualified experts found that they do not present a complete or accurate record of the events they purport to depict,” Glenn Simpson, a partner at the research firm Fusion GPS, wrote in a report.

I bet money that if I edited enough tapes selectively enough I could produce one that has Mike Huckabee gleefully talking about how much he likes butt sex and how eager he is to get gay married but it sure wouldn't represent reality on that subject.

The critics are deflecting, arguing about the package not the substance.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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The critics are deflecting, arguing about the package not the substance.

Not sure what you mean by this.

The substance is that the story that Carly told never happened and the tapes have been thoroughly debunked as misleading and selectively edited to produce an inaccurate picture of the events that take place in them.

What substance are you talking about?

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Unfortunately the GOP isn't going to nominate any of these four. The party has become a joke - the fact that Trump is even still in the race is enough evidence that a good number of Republicans respond to absurd rhetoric over substance.

That all being said, there is a sick part of me that would enjoy a Trump vs Biden debate - would be a disaster for the country but talk about pure comedy. 

There is plenty of time to flush Trump.  In the meantime, I love that the guy is really shaking up the status quo in our campaigns.  I find it very refreshing.  I think he's kicking the shyt out of the normal rhetoric we've historically seen.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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Not sure what you mean by this.

The substance is that the story that Carly told never happened and the tapes have been thoroughly debunked as misleading and selectively edited to produce an inaccurate picture of the events that take place in them.

What substance are you talking about?

I quoted NMPackalum, inferring my agreement with him.  Go back and reread his post.  If you don't understand, let me know and I'll attempt a further explanation.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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I quoted NMPackalum, inferring my agreement with him.  Go back and reread his post.  If you don't understand, let me know and I'll attempt a further explanation.

Thanks. I think I understand the context now, but I don't really agree. I argue with more than the packaging of the substance since the selectively edited videos make it sound like Planned Parenthood is making tons of profits on the sale of the fetal tissue, which is outlawed. They are allowed - with the consent of the individual undergoing the abortion - to donate it for research and charge only enough to collect the tissue and transport it.

http://m.snopes.com/fetal-tissue-sales/

However, they cannot make a profit and the Center for Medical Progress (the group who made the videos) is alleging that they're profiting, a charge of which has been investigated since the videos surfaced and evidence has not been found.

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There is plenty of time to flush Trump.  In the meantime, I love that the guy is really shaking up the status quo in our campaigns.  I find it very refreshing.  I think he's kicking the shyt out of the normal rhetoric we've historically seen.

If he simply stuck to speaking on real issues, I would agree. That said, he comes across looking like a baboon when he interrupts, relies on hyperbole for shock value, and ridicules opponents on their appearance. Perhaps I'm biased but Rand Paul came across as the most "mature" candidate as he actually provided some adult commentary on relevant issues. 

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.... he comes across looking like a baboon when he interrupts, relies on hyperbole for shock value, and goes off on ridiculing opponents on their appearance. 

I don't disagree.  But comparing this to the years and years of carefully guarded responses full of PC shyt that we've gotten from previous debates?  This is great, in my opinion.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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