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madmartigan

OT:Game of Thrones-SPOILERS ALERT

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I didn't enjoy that final scene.  The focus on Theon's victim hood instead of Sansa's felt out of place.  But the outcry is too much.  I mean, in the pilot the exact same thing happens to Danaerys in a much more graphic scene.

​I think the focus was on Theon not to show his victomhood and downplay Sansa's but so as not going to far. We didn't have to see Sansa to know what was happening. It was awful enough. Theon was representing the viewer. I've heard complaints on showing theon but I imagine the outrage would be worse if the camera stayed on sansa.

I do agree with the outcry being too much. I saw some comments about how this was too much and comparing it to the books where worse happened but to a smaller character. So somehow its worse that it happened to Sansa than her childhood friend Jeyne.

All that said the scene was awful(as it should have been). I was hoping they wouldn't have this scene but i'm willing to see where the storyline goes before I say it was a bad choice.

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Having read all the books this past off-season, I'm struggling a bit with all the departures from the plot lines.  Perhaps the biggest is the Cersei-Margaery switcherooski.   Also, Baristan Selmy is killed.  Sansa is really Sansa.  Stuff like that.  It's throwing me off.  The season has been interesting, if not somewhat unsettling.  Also, did Ser Jorah actually contract grayscale in the books?  I may have missed that...

No.  That was another character in a plotline that got cut from the show who got greyscale.

As to Theon, seems like they're setting it up for him to "rescue" Sansa, but GRR Martin certainly wouldn't do it that way.

Remains to be seen how Benioff, etal, have it go down.  Someone commented on Theon confessing to Sansa about Bran and Rikon, but, IIRC, Theon had no idea that the (badly burned) bodies had been switched out.  Or am I wrong there?  Plus, where's the seen for Catelyn that was, I think, at the end of Book 3? 

I guess I'm too old to retain all those details...

 

   

I think the Catelyn stuff has been cut as well.

Theon knows in both show and books that the burned bodies were a fraud.  In the books he even goes so far as to have the few other ironmen who know it was faked to be killed in what look like accidents.  And it looks like Theon's storyline is going to go exactly how Martin wrote it.

 

It feels like as badass of fighters as they make all the characters in the show, it should have taken 1000 guys to take out Selmy instead of just a dozen.

 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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Having read all the books this past off-season, I'm struggling a bit with all the departures from the plot lines.  Perhaps the biggest is the Cersei-Margaery switcherooski.   Also, Baristan Selmy is killed.  Sansa is really Sansa.  Stuff like that.  It's throwing me off.  The season has been interesting, if not somewhat unsettling.  Also, did Ser Jorah actually contract grayscale in the books?  I may have missed that...

As to Theon, seems like they're setting it up for him to "rescue" Sansa, but GRR Martin certainly wouldn't do it that way.  Remains to be seen how Benioff, etal, have it go down.  Someone commented on Theon confessing to Sansa about Bran and Rikon, but, IIRC, Theon had no idea that the (badly burned) bodies had been switched out.  Or am I wrong there?  Plus, where's the seen for Catelyn that was, I think, at the end of Book 3? 

I guess I'm too old to retain all those details...

 

   

​What Cersei-Margaery switcheroo?

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Shit just got real for Cersei.  

​She thought she was so clever. It's funny in the books her internal monologue- telling herself how she's just as smart as her dad. That is, of course, until she gets thrown in a dingy cell. 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. 

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I didn't enjoy that final scene.  The focus on Theon's victim hood instead of Sansa's felt out of place.  But the outcry is too much.  I mean, in the pilot the exact same thing happens to Danaerys in a much more graphic scene.

​Having read the book before watching season 1, what happened with Dany was quite a bit different. Why? Drogo understood "no" and did not rape her in any way. If Dany told him "no" when he was doing something, he stopped. In fact, it was Dany who ended up consenting and overall, initiating it in the end. That part in the show I wasn't overly happy with. Because it basically ends up with her "falling in love with her rapist" by the end of the season and what not, when it was never like that to begin with.

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​Having read the book before watching season 1, what happened with Dany was quite a bit different. Why? Drogo understood "no" and did not rape her in any way. If Dany told him "no" when he was doing something, he stopped. In fact, it was Dany who ended up consenting and overall, initiating it in the end. That part in the show I wasn't overly happy with. Because it basically ends up with her "falling in love with her rapist" by the end of the season and what not, when it was never like that to begin with.

I understand why they changed it though.  In a visual medium, it would be impossible to show in just two hours the wild array of emotions Dany has in this first couple of chapters.  They needed to go from her being terrified of marriage in episode one to the two of them falling in love with each other at the end of episode two.  Having a love scene where Drogo is gentle and compassionate, and then going back to brutalizing her in subsequent sex scenes like in the books, wouldn't work.  So the creators wisely did away with the complexity of that scene to make Dang's arc more linear.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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I understand why they changed it though.  In a visual medium, it would be impossible to show in just two hours the wild array of emotions Dany has in this first couple of chapters.  They needed to go from her being terrified of marriage in episode one to the two of them falling in love with each other at the end of episode two.  Having a love scene where Drogo is gentle and compassionate, and then going back to brutalizing her in subsequent sex scenes like in the books, wouldn't work.  So the creators wisely did away with the complexity of that scene to make Dang's arc more linear.

​Except she wasn't really brutalized. She had a bad case of saddle-soreness along with inexperience. They sort of showed it in the show, but it was really underplayed, the saddle-soreness that is.

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​Except she wasn't really brutalized. She had a bad case of saddle-soreness along with inexperience. They sort of showed it in the show, but it was really underplayed, the saddle-soreness that is.

That's true, brutalized wasn't the right word.  But he wasn't as compassionate as that first night either.  He'd spend the evenings drinking and carousing with the boys and  afterward come in to take his marriage rights.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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​What Cersei-Margaery switcheroo?

​I don't recall that Margaery was sent to the dungeons in the books.  Again, I may have missed that.   It therefore didn't make sense that Cersei was sitting pretty and Margaery wasn't... at least until yesterday.  That's what I was getting at.  I certainly recall Cersei being stripped down (quite literally) in the books, so sort of back on course now...

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​I don't recall that Margaery was sent to the dungeons in the books.  Again, I may have missed that.   It therefore didn't make sense that Cersei was sitting pretty and Margaery wasn't... at least until yesterday.  That's what I was getting at.  I certainly recall Cersei being stripped down (quite literally) in the books, so sort of back on course now...

Nah, Margaery did end up in the dungeon... Just for a different reason. She was accused, along with her cousins, of having slept with all sorts of different men, including some of the kingsguard. It was all fabricated by Cersei. 

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WTF?

I am going through Hodor withdrawals. 

What the hell is going on with Bran's little group?  

Go Pokes!

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WTF?

I am going through Hodor withdrawals. 

What the hell is going on with Bran's little group?  

Good question.  Nearly forgot about that guy. 

San Jose State
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Bran and company aren't appearing this season.

I was so glad when I found that out before this season. I know that Bran is going to end up playing an important part in all of this... but his story is boring as hell, both in the books and in the show. 

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I was so glad when I found that out before this season. I know that Bran is going to end up playing an important part in all of this... but his story is boring as hell, both in the books and in the show. 

Couldn't agree more.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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Okay, I read book 1 and then watched season 1 and a few things bothered me like the whole Dany falling in love with her rapist thing from the series (which is actually quite disturbing in many aspects), absence of Jeyne Poole, Ned having to tell Stannis about the whole Jaime-Cersei thing when Stannis had investigated with Jon Arryn in the first place, etc. I then began watching ahead with season 2 and part of season 3 as well as checking things out on the wikis (basically 3 of them, including wikipedia itself). Let's just say that I knew season 5 was going to deviate from the book quite a bit, but from what I have read on it, it turns several things on their heads from the books and throws more murder, rape, and murder rape more for just the shock value than anything and I'm already getting tired of it part way through season 3. I like Arya's arc, Tyrion is good, Jon Snow is OK, Sam looks to be based on Neville Longbottom from Harry Potter (I read Harry Potter when it first came out, so sue me), and Dany seems like a great character but her naivete and semi-delusions of being the mother of her dragons are worrisome.

Bran's line I find interesting, but he gets very little screen time, Robb is a good battlefield commander but is even worse at politics than his father, hell, he flat out breaks his promise to the old bridge guy, Tywin is quite intelligent, and every bit as cruel, Cersei is the epitome of a bad mother, Sansa... Let's just say her sister and brothers have far more sense than she does, and a good bit of that lack of sense is her fault for willingly turning a blind eye to Joffery's cruelty. Joffery, we get it. He's a little shit who will get his comeuppance and is one of the few characters with no redeeming qualities.

In short? I think I'm going to drop this series. Getting tired of all the rape and murdering, rape "turning consensual" (seriously, what the +++++), main characters getting axed off, and little time given to the actual impending threat of the Others, Brann's arc, and how the hell this is even supposed to wrap up without half of the remaining heroes killing off the other half. It's frustrating that the parts I'm actually interested in get very little screen time while the parts that are tedious or even disturbing are getting more and more focus.

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I haven't read the books but the whole Dany plot line seemed to evoke the reality of arranged marriages that happen elsewhere in the world.  Women are still considered property in some cultures and GRRM hit upon that.  

So to me it was an authentic take - many women forced to marry actually can fall in love with men who to westerners appear as rapists.

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I haven't read the books but the whole Dany plot line seemed to evoke the reality of arranged marriages that happen elsewhere in the world.  Women are still considered property in some cultures and GRRM hit upon that.  

So to me it was an authentic take - many women forced to marry actually can fall in love with men who to westerners appear as rapists.

​Actually, it was considerably different in the book than how it was portrayed in the TV show. When Dany said no, Drogo stopped what he was doing and would ask "No?" if he started doing something else. He was not forceful. He only did what Dany consented too. That was my issue with that part.

And elsewhere in the world, in places where such things happen, there isn't love. They view it as a norm, as a requirement. But no love. In some places where they are forced to marry, the women have incredibly high suicide rates.

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​Actually, it was considerably different in the book than how it was portrayed in the TV show. When Dany said no, Drogo stopped what he was doing and would ask "No?" if he started doing something else. He was not forceful. He only did what Dany consented too. That was my issue with that part.

And elsewhere in the world, in places where such things happen, there isn't love. They view it as a norm, as a requirement. But no love. In some places where they are forced to marry, the women have incredibly high suicide rates.

​You can't make a blanket statement such as "there isn't love".  Sure it may have a high failure rate, and I don't doubt there are suicides.  But I'm sure there are some who actually learn to love their husbands.  It's a culture thing.

And don't get me wrong, I certainly don't approve of arranged or forced marriages - I was just postulating.

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BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

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